i5 7500 or Ryzen 5 1400 for SFF?

[Vince]

Grey import? It's a legitimate supplier, with no questions of origin. I suggest you do your research first before talking nonsense.

As for business practice, the burden is minimal due to the fact we source most of our kit directly from Taiwan/China manufacturers, just like OCUK do for theirs. You do know all of the big manufacturers are in that area, right? Why would we go through UK distys when all they do is add margin, we have the volume to buy direct from most places so we do.



You are making great big assumptions, and have no clue about what we do/make, who we sell to, or the end use of said products.

Problem is unless I'm totally wrong and concede this could be the case, your not buying direct are you? Your buying an Intel CPU from a foreign Disti, not direct as you state above. So instead of everybody making assumptions why not clear it up what is it the business does? OCUK will buy direct from manufacturers for the most part (not some foreign disti) with the goods known to be heading for the UK market. This is very different to what you are talking about and unless i'm mistaken Cervos have no link to Intel and are certainly not producing their CPU's, so yes, your buying from a foreign disti the goods of another manufacturer which were not intended to be bound for this country, that makes them grey which is perfectly legal but potentially problematic. You made a claim that all the big manufacturers are there and your right but you openly told us who you are buying from and this is anything but direct. So over to you to clear it up, bear in mind this whole conversation is based around Intel CPU's which unless i'm mistaken Cervoz don't manufacture.

As for the last bit it doesn't matter what you make, who you sell to or the end user of the product. You were talking about the procurement of Intel CPU's, not any of the products listed on the Cervo website some of which it appears they do manufacture.

 

[Journey]

Words

Intel don't have 'grey' they sell worldwide other than mainland China who have some different SKU's. All of the Intel product you buy, whether it be in the UK, the USA, Finland, Australia etc. has the same warranty and therefore is not one bit problematic. I'm not sure if you work in the PC hardware sector, so it's not comparable to say importing a mobile phone meant for a different region. With regards to the use of the third party, we are buying older CPU's mainly, and the odd quantity of newly released ones for dev work, since the pricing in the EU is either huge, or they are not available, companies like Cervoz allow you to get volume like pricing, with a direct link back to Intel. You could argue that we should buy all the CPU's from Ingram Micro, Microtronica, AVnet or such, but that would cost way, way more than buying them and importing them. In some instances we have even 'imported' CPU's from the USA due to availability issues, it has no effect to the end user. So yes, we generally don't deal with Intel directly, but are one step back the same way that we don't buy licences for Windows from Microsoft but from a disti, because we have to.

 

[Vince]

Fair enough, I did not come in here for some kind of Keyboard warrior fight but I do question that Intel don't recognise grey goods - From an OCUK competitors website on the product description for in I5 650, the store rhymes with SCAM:

"As Intel's Premier Partner - Remember when buying Intel Retail CPU's - We are never the cheapest! but - we sell only genuine UK Distribution Stock - This means if you buy a Grey or Imported product Intel will NOT honour their 3 year Warranty. All Intel Boxed CPU's are now tracked by Serial Number."

 

[Journey]

Fair enough, I did not come in here for some kind of Keyboard warrior fight but I do question that Intel don't recognise grey goods - From an OCUK competitors website on the product description for in I5 650, the store rhymes with SCAM:

"As Intel's Premier Partner - Remember when buying Intel Retail CPU's - We are never the cheapest! but - we sell only genuine UK Distribution Stock - This means if you buy a Grey or Imported product Intel will NOT honour their 3 year Warranty. All Intel Boxed CPU's are now tracked by Serial Number."

We don't use any boxed product, as we don't use the coolers. It's all tray OEM. Also for boxed product I believe that information is now around 7 years out of date, and Intel do not have such a issue with retail product secured anywhere around the globe now, please see the warranty FAQ at this URL - https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/support/processors/000005721.html aso this one https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/support/processors/000006598.html

I've never had issue using Intel warranty, personally, or professionally and I would love to hear from anyone that has, especially if they are the original owner of a boxed Intel CPU.

 

[Vince]

We don't use any boxed product, as we don't use the coolers. It's all tray OEM. Also for boxed product I believe that information is now around 7 years out of date, and Intel do not have such a issue with retail product secured anywhere around the globe now, please see the warranty FAQ at this URL - https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/support/processors/000005721.html aso this one https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/support/processors/000006598.html

I've never had issue using Intel warranty, personally, or professionally and I would love to hear from anyone that has, especially if they are the original owner of a boxed Intel CPU.

I did have a good look through there before posting (didn't want to make more of a fool of myself than I need to ) but found that it was all a bit ambiguous. It's perfectly clear though that OEM or tray processors warranty would not be provided by Intel but instead with the partner/disti. If you have failures I guess its a ship back to china jobbie and your company handles the warranty aspect?

There is also no comment in either link about cpu's bought in different territories, it also makes no reference in the UK limited warranty PDF. I wonder what the official Intel stance is on this now as information seems quite scarce. There are more recent news articles but none that particularly cement either standpoint. In the 15 or more years I have been in the industry I have hit issues with a grey import only once on a HP server, it really isn't something I would like to battle with again.

 

[Journey]

I have hit issues with a grey import only once on a HP server, it really isn't something I would like to battle with again.

HP are a nightmare, one of our customers has had similar experiences as they had kit supplied from the USA in Ireland, and we could not get them to help at all. Luckily at the time it didn't stop our installation moving forward, but we then got to sell them some alternative kit, so it was a win for us.

As for Intel OEM warranty, yes we handle the returns, but again we consolidate and faulty parts from all of the different vendors weekly (CPU's very rarely) the most common ones being LGA sockets on board going back to be replaced, and random components replaced on boards when people are cack handed with screw drivers. I think the biggest issue with China/Taiwan is the number of weird and wonderful public holidays they have, and how incestuous the hiring of staff is. You get used to dealing with an FAE at one place, then they decided to move to another place, and you are left confused, but it's a very common occurrence, and very normal over there, not at all like changing jobs in the UK. To be honest visiting Taiwan really opened my eyes as to how many of these companies occupy the same building and share staff, technology and resources to get stuff done. It is no wonder they lead the world in electronic development/manufacturing.

 

[orbitalwalsh]

HP are a nightmare, one of our customers has had similar experiences as they had kit supplied from the USA in Ireland, and we could not get them to help at all. Luckily at the time it didn't stop our installation moving forward, but we then got to sell them some alternative kit, so it was a win for us.

As for Intel OEM warranty, yes we handle the returns, but again we consolidate and faulty parts from all of the different vendors weekly (CPU's very rarely) the most common ones being LGA sockets on board going back to be replaced, and random components replaced on boards when people are cack handed with screw drivers. I think the biggest issue with China/Taiwan is the number of weird and wonderful public holidays they have, and how incestuous the hiring of staff is. You get used to dealing with an FAE at one place, then they decided to move to another place, and you are left confused, but it's a very common occurrence, and very normal over there, not at all like changing jobs in the UK. To be honest visiting Taiwan really opened my eyes as to how many of these companies occupy the same building and share staff, technology and resources to get stuff done. It is no wonder they lead the world in electronic development/manufacturing.

I burst out laughing at this one- just like Nvidia to release the GTX 1080 when the key production was over the main holidays- hence the poor number on launch because everyone in the factory was on holiday.

as to OP, i5 8400 looks to be the best chip for intel side if you can wait. intel road maps shows its the one the gains the most single and multicore performance then the rest of the chips

 

[Vince]

Mate HP and Cisco are the world's worst for it. Out of pure interest and because i needed to talk to him anyway I rang a dude I am very close with at Softcat who also happens to be a product specialist. He reckons Intel are hot on grey goods even down to retail boxed processors. Obviously this is an area that is ambiguous at best.

 

[Journey]

Mate HP and Cisco are the world's worst for it. Out of pure interest and because i needed to talk to him anyway I rang a dude I am very close with at Softcat who also happens to be a product specialist. He reckons Intel are hot on grey goods even down to retail boxed processors. Obviously this is an area that is ambiguous at best.

Ha, I've dealt with Softcat, we sold them some kit for the Crossrail project, I think their end user was Laing O’Rourke - needless to say they broke stuff and dealing with Softcat as the middleman was a bloody nightmare, we ended up helping the end user. Weird that he said that since, Softcat don't deal with Intel as hardware disti, only for the security side of things, we meet their needs for hardware especially if it's big project work.

 

[Vince]

Ha, I've dealt with Softcat, we sold them some kit for the Crossrail project, I think their end user was Laing O’Rourke - needless to say they broke stuff and dealing with Softcat as the middleman was a bloody nightmare, we ended up helping the end user. Weird that he said that since, Softcat don't deal with Intel as hardware disti, only for the security side of things, we meet their needs for hardware especially if it's big project work.

They are almost like the Microsoft of Disti's, they seem to pop up in every organisation I have ever worked at. I once moved between companies both using Softcat, both with the same account manager. Was proper peculiar when I received a call at a new organisation from the same guy I had been dealing with for probably 7 years or so at the previous organisation. Over the years they have procured all manner of random stuff for me.

 

[Scougar]

Seems like you guys need to create your own thread.

 

[Vince]

Seems like you guys need to create your own thread.

Like pretty much every thread around here it strayed off topic somewhat. Apologies to the op! Fwiw both are very decent processors that will perform well, if it were me I would just go with what I could grab the best deal on to be honest.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

To be honest I'm quite impressed that there's an argument in the CPU section but it's not AMD vs Intel!

I'd like to wait for the Intel, but I'm not good at waiting...
I'd also need to wait for a mITX motherboard, no point in getting a Z board, so would want to wait for a cheap H series. How long is that gonna take?
And then I worry that there would be "launch" prices I'd need to wait to end.

I'm thinking I might go with the B350 and 1400. It's cheaper, I know the cooler fits, there's the possibility of overclocking (although I think that's unrealistic given the cooling), it comes with a free game and it might last longer (with it having 8 threads).
Will the B350 support the next gen of Ryzen chips? If not there's the chance of slotting a better Ryzen chip in there, especially if I pay for a better cooler. (I guess this is also true of the H270, could put any of the Kaby Lake chips in there I guess).

i5 7500 seems better in games if not maxed out, if there's no GPU bottleneck. Not sure if the 980 will bottleneck?
Based on these reviews:

 

[Admiral Huddy]

Seems like you guys need to create your own thread.

Yes I have to agree.. but if anyone feels that a member is taking a thread off topic, then please either ignore them or report it. Replying makes the probelm worse.

 

[Vince]

To be honest I'm quite impressed that there's an argument in the CPU section but it's not AMD vs Intel!

I'd like to wait for the Intel, but I'm not good at waiting...
I'd also need to wait for a mITX motherboard, no point in getting a Z board, so would want to wait for a cheap H series. How long is that gonna take?
And then I worry that there would be "launch" prices I'd need to wait to end.

I'm thinking I might go with the B350 and 1400. It's cheaper, I know the cooler fits, there's the possibility of overclocking (although I think that's unrealistic given the cooling), it comes with a free game and it might last longer (with it having 8 threads).
Will the B350 support the next gen of Ryzen chips? If not there's the chance of slotting a better Ryzen chip in there, especially if I pay for a better cooler. (I guess this is also true of the H270, could put any of the Kaby Lake chips in there I guess).

i5 7500 seems better in games if not maxed out, if there's no GPU bottleneck. Not sure if the 980 will bottleneck?

I don't think anybody is going to be able to help on the price or other bits on the Intel platform just yet but we do know that AMD claim you will be able to use the am4 socket for the next 2 or more generations of Zen. You also have quite a lot of space to move up from the 1400 in the current gen so that's not bad going either. I'm also led to believe that even on the wraith cooler you can expect some fairly decent overclocks which also doesnt sound bad.

I think given that there isn't a massive gulf In performance, picking up whatever is cheap and available is not at all a bad strategy. I imagine you will have some space for upgrades on both platforms so you won't have any issues there.

 

[subbytna]

I'd go AM4 purely for the pathway upgrade later on if wanted. INTEL will be another new MOBO / chipset expense, if you want to upgrade later.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

I don't think anybody is going to be able to help on the price or other bits on the Intel platform just yet but we do know that AMD claim you will be able to use the am4 socket for the next 2 or more generations of Zen. You also have quite a lot of space to move up from the 1400 in the current gen so that's not bad going either. I'm also led to believe that even on the wraith cooler you can expect some fairly decent overclocks which also doesnt sound bad.

I think given that there isn't a massive gulf In performance, picking up whatever is cheap and available is not at all a bad strategy. I imagine you will have some space for upgrades on both platforms so you won't have any issues there.

No, they were largely rhetorical questions, it's just what goes through my head when I think about waiting for the new Intel stuff.

I was hoping there'd be some OC headroom, but I believe the 1400 is the Wraith Stealth cooler which is smaller than the spire you get with the 1500X and 1600. But it's the only one that will fit in the case. Shame as I'd really have preferred the 1500X or 1600, although the 1600 is probably overkill for gaming PC at this point.

 

[Tetras]

I'd like to wait for the Intel, but I'm not good at waiting...
I'd also need to wait for a mITX motherboard, no point in getting a Z board, so would want to wait for a cheap H series. How long is that gonna take?
And then I worry that there would be "launch" prices I'd need to wait to end.

I believe that the other boards are scheduled for Q1, 2018.

Personally, I don't think that the launch prices will be inflated, because of the competition.

 

[Scougar]

What are you doing regarding the cooler?

Must be a pretty small case if a stock cooler won't fit.

Edit: sorry, didn't see your post that the stealth cooler on the 1400 fits.it should still be fine e for a 3.6 oc if not 3.7

 

[Vince]

No, they were largely rhetorical questions, it's just what goes through my head when I think about waiting for the new Intel stuff.

I was hoping there'd be some OC headroom, but I believe the 1400 is the Wraith Stealth cooler which is smaller than the spire you get with the 1500X and 1600. But it's the only one that will fit in the case. Shame as I'd really have preferred the 1500X or 1600, although the 1600 is probably overkill for gaming PC at this point.

Now that makes sense, I didn't realise that there were several versions of the cooler - I literally learn something new every day. I don't think that personally I would be put off by the schedule with the Intel stuff but would be concerned with the value for money prospect. I can see the 7500 for around £200 and the 1400 is what £160 ish? Add the board etc in and your in the ballpark of £150 or there about less for the ryzen system, which lets be honest isn't really massive money but its still some decent beer money. When you compare the benchmarks though and do a little bit of man maths your looking at chips that match up pretty well head to head. In my rough calculations you would need a 3.7/3.8 clock on the 1400 and your looking at two cpu's which trade blows in a massively close fashion. Honestly I think that there will probably be enough room in the 1400 to push that clock to somewhere in the 3.7ish area.

Now it might sound that I'm selling the AMD kit but really I am not, Intels kit at this end isn't the dead end everybody makes it out to be, sure if your going at the top end and buying the best CPU the socket can handle then your upgrade path is pretty much non existent, if however you start off with a lower end / mid end chip then your always going to have somewhere to go even if its something more powerful of the same gen, so both are viable given what you want to do, the small itx nature, power envelope etc. I am going to say it though, I would be hard pushed to select this gen Intel but that's only because my work box is a 65w i5 7500 which gets decimated in all tasks by the 6700hq in my laptop while the laptop draws 20w less but seems to offer vastly more performance.