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Ian McNaughton goes out against The Way it's Meant to be Played

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AMD prides itself on supporting open standards and our goal is to advance PC gaming regardless whether people purchase our products.

Unfortunately, not everyone shares our philosophy. Nvidia has recently sampled some newly released The Way it is Meant to be Played titles, including Batman: Arkham Asylum, to press in hopes that they would use these titles to benchmark against the HD Radeon 5870 and 5850. There are some known issues with these proprietary TWIMTBP titles.

Batman: Arkham Asylum
In this game, Nvidia has an in-game option for AA, whereas, gamers using ATI Graphics Cards are required to force AA on in the Catalyst Control Center.

The advantage of in-game AA is that the engine can run AA selectively on scenes whereas Forced AA in CCC is required to use brute force to apply AA on every scene and object, requiring much more work.

Additionally, the in-game AA option was removed when ATI cards are detected. We were able to confirm this by changing the ids of ATI graphics cards in the Batman demo. By tricking the application, we were able to get in-game AA option where our performance was significantly enhanced. This option is not available for the retail game as there is a secure rom.

To fairly benchmark this application, please turn off all AA to assess the performance of the respective graphics cards. Also, we should point out that even at 2560×1600 with 4x AA and 8x AF we are still in the highly playable territory …

Need for Speed: Shift
In another TWIMTBP title, we submitted a list of issues that we discovered during the games’ development. These issues include inefficiencies in how the game engine worked with our hardware in addition to real bugs, etc.. We have sent this list to the developer for review. .

Unfortunately you will be unable to get a fair playing experience with our hardware until the developer releases a patch to address and fix our reported issues.

Resident Evil 5
AMD was unable to receive builds of this game early enough to get a chance to test and address any open issues. We will work with the developer to test and adjust any compatibility or performance issues that we encounter.

About NFS:Shift
The game uses PhysX to compute entire movements in game scene. So if You don’t have gpu physx, it falls down to cpu physx via nvidia physx engine again, not with own implementation, so nvdia would never optimize physx on cpu. ea is guilty - for not usin own physics computation on cpu.

http://blogs.amd.com/play/2009/09/1...ing-you-want-to-know-and-why-you-should-care/
 
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It's just getting worse and worse.

I wonder what members will go to extreme lengths to explain away this one now?

Each time something like this surfaces, it's just more crap to add to the list of what nVidia need to be fined for.

The EU commission fine Microsoft for bundling Media Player 12 and Internet Explorer, which I believe they're more than entitled to do, yet they appear to be overlooking nVidia's actions?
 
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Fined for what? actually making real applicable advances in game technology?

I don't mind ATI getting riled up about it... but atleast have a working alternative first...

Tho the AA is a dodgy one... while I wouldn't put it past nVidia to do it I wonder if theres more to it than meets the eye... like the whole physx only works on one core in CPU mode with Batman AA - which is completely untrue.
 
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Fined for what? actually making real applicable advances in game technology?

I don't mind ATI getting riled up about it... but atleast have a working alternative first...

Thanks Rroff, that was a perfect example of what I was talking about.

I assume that you are indeed just giving an example and not being serious?
 
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Does Nvidia pay these companys extra money for these rights? "The way it's meant to be played" ?

Seems to me that Nvidia are using underhand tactics just like Intel.
 
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Thanks Rroff, that was a perfect example of what I was talking about.

I assume that you are indeed just giving an example and not being serious?

Of what?

If these aren't such applicable advances... then why are 2 of the major AAA studios now starting to using them in most of their new titles?
 
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Of what?

If these aren't such applicable advances... then why are 2 of the major AAA studios now starting to using them in most of their new titles?

You're actually being serious? :eek:

Are you seriously trying to explain away:

the in-game AA option was removed when ATI cards are detected. We were able to confirm this by changing the ids of ATI graphics cards in the Batman demo. By tricking the application, we were able to get in-game AA option where our performance was significantly enhanced. This option is not available for the retail game as there is a secure rom.

Are you sure that doesn't smack of Anti-competitive behaviour?
 
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Where was I trying to explain what they were doing? your so convinced of what I would say your getting ahead of yourself...

I think locking out performance advantages on other hardware deplorable - I just haven't seen it for myself yet - and the other example with physx being locked to one CPU core when using non-GPU physics doesn't seem to be true - when I tested it for myself there was deffinate increase of load on 2 cores and a smaller increase on one other core. So I'd like to see this def. confirmed before I comment on it.
 
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Every day, a new reason to never give these slimeballs my money again.

You know Rroff, I was actually starting to think maybe I was wrong in thinking you were blindly following nVidia however they weave their twisted webs.
 
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Where was I trying to explain what they were doing? your so convinced of what I would say your getting ahead of yourself...

I think locking out performance advantages on other hardware deplorable - I just haven't seen it for myself yet - and the other example with physx being locked to one CPU core when using non-GPU physics doesn't seem to be true - when I tested it for myself there was deffinate increase of load on 2 cores and a smaller increase on one other core.

I & others have posted links to reviews sites & users who that show that phyisx in certain games running on one core & but as usual you have no links to backup your comments with the games in question.
 
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Where was I trying to explain what they were doing? your so convinced of what I would say your getting ahead of yourself...

I think locking out performance advantages on other hardware deplorable - I just haven't seen it for myself yet - and the other example with physx being locked to one CPU core when using non-GPU physics doesn't seem to be true - when I tested it for myself there was deffinate increase of load on 2 cores and a smaller increase on one other core. So I'd like to see this def. confirmed before I comment on it.

People were talking about Batman missing the AA options when using an ATi card anyway.

The fact that it suddenly became selectable once the ID of the card was changed says it all.
 
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The attitude Nvidia have leads me to come to the decision of never purchasing a product of theirs ever again.
 
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Every day, a new reason to never give these slimeballs my money again.

You know Rroff, I was actually starting to think maybe I was wrong in thinking you were blindly following nVidia however they weave their twisted webs.

The sad thing is, it literally is becoming every day we find out something else nVidia have been trying to mess up for their competition.

Makes you wonder how the performance would be accross the board if they suddenly had to play fair?
 
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Surely Nvidia are just getting something back from investing in game development? I don't get why ATI don't do the same. It's all very well taking the moral high ground but it's not really going to solve the problem.

I do think that it's a mistake for him to openly criticise the games developers. If they want to get them onside, but don't want to invest in an ATI version of TWIMTBP, then openly criticising them isn't the way to go.

Disabling in game AA when an ATI card is present is poor though. :(
 
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Fined for what? actually making real applicable advances in game technology?

I don't mind ATI getting riled up about it... but atleast have a working alternative first...

Tho the AA is a dodgy one... while I wouldn't put it past nVidia to do it I wonder if theres more to it than meets the eye... like the whole physx only works on one core in CPU mode with Batman AA - which is completely untrue.

Well, it doesn't seem to take full advantage of my E5200, how is it supposed to do anything useful with a Core i7, or even a Core 2 Quad?

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/Lightynix/bmphysxnormal-1024768.png

Obviously with graphics toned down to emphasise CPU usage - PhysX setting is at 'normal', so paper flops around during fights and such.
 
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What annoys me is that they have completely dropped support for the Ageia PPU! I mean it's still up there near a 8800 for PhysX calculations!

i.e. it could still be used perfectly well for PhysX stuff, but nooooo nVidia strike again! Grrrrrrr

Morons!
 
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We can accuse nvidia all we want, but I honestly think if other companies were in the same position they would be using similiar tactics and that includes ATI.

Rather than argue, what we should all do is simply not buy nvidia cards or the TWIMTBP games untill both parties cease using such pointless propriety technologies.
 
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Surely Nvidia are just getting something back from investing in game development? I don't get why ATI don't do the same. It's all very well taking the moral high ground but it's not really going to solve the problem.

I do think that it's a mistake for him to openly criticise the games developers. If they want to get them onside, but don't want to invest in an ATI version of TWIMTBP, then openly criticising them isn't the way to go.

Disabling in game AA when an ATI card is present is poor though. :(

ATI don't want to invest in an ATI version of TWIMTBP because 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Its the TWIMTBP that's doing the things like Disabling in game AA when an ATI card is present. And you want ATI todo the same & it will get to the point that a TWIMTBP game wont work at all on ATI cards & ATI TWIMTBP version game wont work on NV cards & then they will want exclusives of course & you will need 2 PCs to play them with a gfx card from each or swap the cards out every time you change from an NV game to an ATI game & viceversa.
 
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