ID Cards - Big Brother is watching

Norbert666 · 20 Apr 2006 at 09:28

interesting read. I can't comment on how real/accurate it is however. make up your own minds

You may have heard that legislation creating compulsory ID Cards passed a crucial stage in the House of Commons. You may feel that ID cards are not something to worry about, since we already have Photo ID for our Passport and Driving License and an ID Card will be no different to that. What you have not been told is the full scope of this proposed ID Card, and what it will mean to you personally.

The proposed ID Card will be different from any card you now hold. It will be connected to a database called the NIR, (National Identity Register), where all of your personal details will be stored. This will include the unique number that will be issued to you, your fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your name, address and date of birth will also obviously be stored there. There will be spaces on this database for your religion, residence status, and many other private and personal facts about you.

There is unlimited space for every other detail of your life on the NIR database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without further Acts of Parliament. By itself, you might think that this register is harmless, but you would be wrong to come to this conclusion. This new card will be used to check your identity against your entry in the register in real time, whenever you present it to 'prove who you are'.

Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every pharmacy, and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal, (very much like the Chip and Pin Readers that are everywhere now) into which your card can be 'swiped' to check your identity. Each time this happens, a record is made at the NIR of the time and place that the Card was presented. This means for example, that there will be a government record of every time you withdraw more than £99 at your bank - who now demand ID for these transactions. Every time you have to prove that you are over 18, your card will be swiped, and a record made at the NIR.

Restaurants and off licenses will demand that your card is swiped so that each receipt shows that they sold alcohol to someone over 18, and that this was proved by the access to the NIR, indemnifying them from prosecution.

Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. If you want to apply for a job, you will have to present your card for a swipe. If you want to apply for a London Underground Oyster Card, or a supermarket loyalty card, or a driving license you will have to present your ID Card for a swipe. The same goes for getting a telephone line or a mobile phone or an internet account.

Oyster, DVLA, BT and Nectar (for example) all run very detailed databases of their own. They will be allowed access to the NIR, just as every other business will be. This means that each of these entities will be able to store your unique number in their database, and place all your travel, phone records, driving activities and detailed shopping habits under your unique NIR number.

These databases, which can easily fit on a storage device the size of your hand, will be sold to third parties either legally or illegally. It will then be possible for a non governmental entity to create a detailed dossier of all your activities. Certainly, the government will have clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down to the level of what sort of bread you eat - all accessible via a single unique number in a central database.

This is quite a significant leap from a simple IDCard that shows your name and face.

Most people do not know that this is the true character and scope of the proposed ID Card. Whenever the details of how it will work are explained to them, they quickly change from being ambivalent towards it.

The Government is going to compel you to enter your details into the NIR and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID Card will be issued to you whether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye scanned, you will not be able to get a passport. Your ID Card will, just like your passport, not be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to revoke or suspend your ID at any time, meaning that you will not be able to withdraw money from your Bank Account, for example, or do anything that requires you to present your government issued ID Card.

The arguments that have been put forwarded in favor of ID Cards can be easily disproved. ID Cards will not stop terrorists; every Spaniard has a compulsory ID Card as did the Madrid Bombers. ID Cards will not 'eliminate benefit fraud', which in any case, is small compared to the astronomical cost of this proposal, which will be measured in billions according to the LSE. This scheme exists solely to exert total surveillance and control over the ordinary free British Citizen, and it will line the pockets of the companies that will create the computer systems at the expense of your freedom, privacy and money.

The Bill has proceeded to this stage due to the lack of accurate and complete information on this proposal being made public.

Also, if you agree that the government's job is to serve us, and not the other way around, please register at www.defy-id.org.uk

"They who would give up liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security." - Benjamin Franklin

Moredhel · 20 Apr 2006 at 09:39

Actually I'd say that most people DO know that's what they're aiming for with ID cards, and I still say that most people, like myself, don't care.

As always it's always a very vocal minority who do.

MookJong · 20 Apr 2006 at 09:48

Moredhel said:
Actually I'd say that most people DO know that's what they're aiming for with ID cards, and I still say that most people, like myself, don't care.

As always it's always a very vocal minority who do.

I take it you only don't care because you trust the government to use the system resposibly?

Moredhel · 20 Apr 2006 at 09:58

MookJong said:
I take it you only don't care because you trust the government to use the system resposibly?

Not as such, I think they're too incompetent to ever get it to that level of efficiency. And if they did it would cost them so much the public outcry would end it.

stoofa · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:00

MookJong said:
I take it you only don't care because you trust the government to use the system resposibly?

You say that as if they are looking after all the information they have on you now.
It will make no difference.
The government gain no new information, they will still allow the same amount of access to it.
If anybody wants to find anything out about me I know that with the right "contacts" and the right amount of money anyone could find out anything about me.

So at the end of the day I really don't care.
If it means I can carry one card around with me instead of my driving license and passport then I really don't have a problem with it all.

vanandjuanunited · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:02

Have no isues with it but have to wonder about the cost and what it will solve in reality.

dirtydog · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:02

Moredhel said:
Not as such, I think they're too incompetent to ever get it to that level of efficiency. And if they did it would cost them so much the public outcry would end it.

The ID card scheme *is* going to cost many billions of pounds but they're still doing it.

dirtydog · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:02

stoofa said:
You say that as if they are looking after all the information they have on you now.
It will make no difference.
The government gain no new information

How so? Do they already have your fingerprints and eye scans then because they don't have mine.

WIBSBOT · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:06

stoofa said:
You say that as if they are looking after all the information they have on you now.
It will make no difference.
The government gain no new information, they will still allow the same amount of access to it.
If anybody wants to find anything out about me I know that with the right "contacts" and the right amount of money anyone could find out anything about me.

So at the end of the day I really don't care.
If it means I can carry one card around with me instead of my driving license and passport then I really don't have a problem with it all.

You don't care that it will be compulsory which means that you'll have to spend a whole load of money to get one. Not only that but you would have already paid a whole load of money in taxes to implement the system in the first place (assuming you are a tax payer).

If you don't care about money, I'll have your spare cash.

tom_nieto · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:08

OH NOES!!1

You honestly think the government can't access all this information anyway? Credit/Debit card records, bank records and even the smallest details can be accessed pretty easily right now. The amount of times it mentions buying alcohol and being over 18, I think it's just 16/17 year old keyboard warriors getting the wind up them about not being able to buy smirnoff ice at the local offie anymore.

The one thing the government doesn't have is my retina scan or fingerprints, but I'm sure a quick call to the USA would soon solve that one.

!bluetonic! · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:10

Where are the guarantees.

I thought my credit card was safe until someone somewhere had my details (while my card was in my wallet) and used it to purchase soemthing at the carphone warehouse. I was sat at my desk at work and got a phone call telling me so.

Someone either took a lucky guess at my CC number or this was an inside job.

Where there is power, there will always be corruption. Knowledge is power. I'm sure someone will have a price for this data.

The system will be as secure as you like, but human nature will be the cause of it's failure.

We voted in the Government. They are acting on our behalf.

They can bring in the ID cards. I just don't want to pay for it.

real · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:24

I think these ID cards are a bad idea. I dont want my purchases and movements recorded. I still dont understand what the new system would actually achieve to warrant spending such a large amount of public spending. Although the system would probably recover its costs due to everyone having to pay to renew the cards and any other money making schemes they can think of.

Minto · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:37

personally i'm fully aware of the implications, but i believe that no matter what is done the government will push through ID cards (in fact they already have) and there is no way to stop them.

All this means is that as soon as my passport runs out after the date of ID card introduction I will no longer be able to travel abroad as i refuse to have one. Not only will i satill have a driving liscence to prove my age/identity if needed but also a significant minority will not have cards (look at how many dont have passports now by choice) and hence they cannot be compulsory for any kind of service (eg taking cash out).

dirtydog · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:42

They will be compulsory soon enough. We will all have to have our fingerprints and iris scans collected, and be forced to pay for the privilege. Happy days.

Voltar · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:52

I think that we're forgetting something called "The Data Protection Act"

Many of you will have had to sign a form with this anyway.

If you don't sign it, your data is not legally allowed to be viewed by another party.

Therefore, should the motions for the national ID's be passed (something which I am surprisingly pro given my strong conservative beliefs) there will be the legal aspect of it as well and they cannot neglect the Act which was passed precisely to stop people having the "big brother" paranoia and so that your private info cannot be circulated without your permission.

End of.

AJUK · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:53

The thing is no government can be trusted with such power in their hands. ID cards, biometrics, what next, genetic screening for jobs?

Here are some plausible future comments that I fear may be made:

"I'm sorry, your IQ is less than 100 so you must work as a toilet cleaner, there is no chance of advancement."

"You have withdrawn £2000 from your bank this month but our tax records and your activity report shows that you cannot possibly earn that money legally. Here is a tax bill or we shall investigate you."

"You have been drinking far too much this year and you clealry like a kebab or three; here is a new tax code taking into account the extra costs your lifestyle will impact on the NHS."

"You have travelled 3000 miles this month, this is above your alloted allowance, you cannot travel for three weeks."

You get the picture, the possibilities of government control over our lives with susch systems are endless and very frightening.

AJUK · 20 Apr 2006 at 10:56

Voltar said:
I think that we're forgetting something called "The Data Protection Act"

Many of you will have had to sign a form with this anyway.

If you don't sign it, your data is not legally allowed to be viewed by another party.

Therefore, should the motions for the national ID's be passed (something which I am surprisingly pro given my strong conservative beliefs) there will be the legal aspect of it as well and they cannot neglect the Act which was passed precisely to stop people having the "big brother" paranoia and so that your private info cannot be circulated without your permission.

End of.

Which doesn't work, I always sign it and always get spam. I had three insurance companies call me asking if I would like a quotation for renewing my office insurance as it was due shortly. I asked them how could they possible know that, they said they have a national database of everyones insurance details as an aid to prevent fraud. My insurance circumstances are nobody's business except mine and my insurers. I ALWAYS deny any of my data being iven to anyone, plainly the system fails almost everytime.

[TW]Fox · 20 Apr 2006 at 11:08

Am I the only person who really doesn't give a stuff if I have to carry an ID card, as long as I don't have to pay any money for it?

Berserker · 20 Apr 2006 at 11:18

[TW]Fox said:
Am I the only person who really doesn't give a stuff if I have to carry an ID card, as long as I don't have to pay any money for it?

You probably will have to, but they'll hide it by raising the cost of a new passport.

Anyway, I'm resigned to it. The government is determined to bulldoze it through come what may, and frankly, it would be impossible to monitor everyone the way that some of the scaremongers state. Best they'll do is introduce a computer system to select people at random or based on 'suspect' activity, whatever that is. In other words, no better or worse than the likes of Echelon.

The_KiD · 20 Apr 2006 at 11:34

What about this then.

You apply for a new job, they swipe your card, they then check the NIR for information on you that shows you have HIV.

They then choose not to employ simply on the grounds that the NIR is showing as HIV registered, but doesnt mean you have aids or anything else that would stop you doing that job.

They obviously would not state this as the reason for not giving you a job, but it would happen.