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illegal immigration

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by gc123, 18 Mar 2021.

  1. The Running Man

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    We as the politicians of the uk did, we as the people of the uk did not.

    Then a few years later the people of the uk voted out altogether because we really really didn't want it at all.

    Had we vetoed Romania and a number of other countries i have no doubt we would still be in.

    If the only reasonable explanation as to why we would admit new countries which would have virtually 200k people into the UK and 2000 people into Romania as cheap workers then that is replacement immigration, literally bringing people to the UK to work to change the composition of our aging population and decline in birthrate.
     
  2. Murphy

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    Yea, that's generally how democracy in the UK works, you vote for someone to represent your views and they vote on your behalf accordingly.

    I'm not disputing that we voted out altogether, that we changed our minds, again it's how democracy works.

    You can have doubts and play what if's and but's all you like but that's not going to change the fact that people voted in favour of Romania joining the EU.

    It's also not "replacement immigration" because such a thing doesn't exist, and even if it did 200k people wouldn't even touch the sides when the population of the country is +60m and 80% is white British ethnic. Romanians don't even make it into the top 10 countries of birth outside the UK. Your protestations are nothing more than your prejudice on display for the world to see.
     
  3. g67575

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    The question that bothers me is, why did British citizens deserve a vote on membership of the EU, while people from the EU living and working here did not?
    Even those who have been living in the UK for years had no say in their future.
     
  4. The Running Man

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    Because they weren't uk citizens?

    Do i get a vote on the German election because it might impact me in the future?

    The truth is having cheap labour might be good for a handful of already wealthy busines owners to help them rachet up their profit margins.

    It's less good for those who have to live shoulder to shoulder with the drug, sex slave, theft or fraud gangs or even worse jihadi terrorists.

    Its true that the business owners and politicians including Boris do NOT live in areas of high Eastern European immigration or non eu immigration.

    Can you imagine how you would feel if you lived on a street and were the last British citizens left? Imagine Boris was the only English man left on the street do you think he would just sit it out?

    A few examples:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...c-communities-growing-apart-towns-cities.html

    People may not want that. Without their consent or consideration it has happened. So you cant really blame those for wanting a crackdown on immigration, especially the illegal kind. As its the poor man who has to live it on a day to day basis.
     
  5. Murphy

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    Jebus he's citing The Daily Mail as a reliable source.

    Maybe cross-reference what they tell you with other sources that aren't race baiting clickbait.

    EDIT: An example of why The Daily Mail is not a reliable source: There's not been 'White Flight' in Newham, 2001 White population 96,130, 2011 White population 89,216. That's not even close to the Claim The Daily Mail made of numbers of whites in some areas down by up to HALF.

    2nd EDIT: Blackburn, segregated sure but...
    3rd EDIT: Whalley Range, nope.
    Noticing any trends yet?
     
    Last edited: 22 May 2021
  6. Flake87

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    And there
    And there's never been White flight in the UK ever! It's a US phrase where the phenomenon does exist, along the lines of White supremecy which is simply the results of thicko leftists (all of the) being too unintelligent to think for themselves of problems in the UK, avoiding thte problems they've caused, and then importing what they see working as perjoritives in the USA.

    Btw Murphy which political philosophers are you currently following because your ideas and posts seem remarkably uninformed and a mishmash of rage anger and hate directed at anyone who dares disagree with you. Your arguments merely an attack on the source which carries them rather than reasoning. do tell I'd love to know. Antonio Gramsci perhaps? Better look him up on Wikipedia first eh?
     
  7. amigafan2003

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    Oh the ironing.....


    FYI, I quite like Gramsci's work. Oh, and before you ask, I'm a Trotskyist.
     
  8. Flake87

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    Ah a denyer of the evils of Marxism, it's wasn't us Sir we were just watching and some bigger boys did it. The evils of the international Marxists are the facts that they saw the slaughter watched it all and stood back and did nothing, simply trying to distance themselves and their ideology from the Bolsheviks, claiming all the while it would have been different if they'd been running the show. Now it's all but defunct, discredited after the fall of the Socialist experiment in Russia failed, but then it hasn't actually worked anywhere has it?

    It can only survive so long as the oppression and the reign of terror prevent people from questioning it and rising up against it.

    Nothin has killed as many people as Socialism has. A death count standing at an estimated 750 million, and it's only been around for approximately 150 years! Not bad going that, and failed every single time it's been tried with murderous consequences.

    Mind you, you probably enjoy the work of Michel Foucault especially in those Moroccan cemetaries ?
     
  9. amigafan2003

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    You mean leninism/stalinism/maoism? Socialism was held by marx as simply a transitionary step to communism, but this has been rejected by later theorists such as Trotsky, paving the way for many successful Social democracies (scandic countries especially). You say socialism has never worked, but its working in many places right now.

    It would help if you actually understood what the definition of the terms are before you debate on them. I can't see on the phone but are you American?

    Oh, while we're on the topic of death toll, how many people has capitalism killed?
     
  10. Flake87

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    Well seeing as capitalism has been around for millenia it's difficult to say but one thing is certain, it's the only system which works! The Scandic countries are not Socialist, only the failing state of Sweden which is now an absolute basket case with it's neighbour Norway threatening to errect a hard border it's becoming so bad. A bewildered loon as Prime Minister who once encountered a mob of rioting migrants and couldn't understand that they were rioting in spite of the evidence in front of his eyes. It's gone from being the safest country in the world for women to the second most dangerous after that other beacon of Socialist success South Africa !

    If you think it's so great then undertake to spend a long weekend in Rinkeby don't book a return ticket you won't be needing it, and you can celebrate the socialist workers paradise as your life ends in the gutter !
     
  11. amigafan2003

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    I have relatives in both Norway and Sweden and spend most summers and winters there, so I know you're talking ****. It is no way the 2nd most dangerous after S.Africa - stop talking rubbish.

    As for Rinkeby, it's a dream getaway compared to capitalist havens such as Detroit.

    Better than the President of the worlds premier capitalist country inciting armed insurrection though eh?

    You never answered - are you American?
     
  12. Yas786

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    You know you have completely lost any argument/debate when you start throwing around pathetic childish words like leftists etc.
    Seems to be a prevalent theme with Flake87.
     
  13. g67575

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    Well, that's obviously ridiculous. You don't live or work in Germany, as a British citizen (I presume) how could German elections affect you in a life changing way?

    The problem with not allowing EU citizens who live in the UK to vote in EU referendums, is that it treats them like 2nd class citizens, with reduced rights.

    It's a debate about equality for UK residents really. Why should there be any difference in rights at all, if EU citizens have been living here for several months, or years?
     
  14. Flake87

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    Detroit isn't that bad, I'd prefer to holiday there now than Rinkeby ! If you care to read about what actually destroyed Detroit aside from capitalism weeding out those companies who fail to provide products which the market wants, the Obama corrupt bail out had a lot to answer for in the years which followed it, and I realise you might have to look this up, but Obama didn't bail out the car industry as such, he bailed out Democrat party backers the union United Auto Workers, and while the state got back all the bail out money from the banks and others, it never recovered the money from Obamas corrupt deal.
    Of course with the media being so pro Democrat in the USA you won't have heard about any of this, so you will need to look it up, and it's consequences. Meanwhile take a look at the horror of other socialist run cities in the USA such as Portland, Seattle, and the latest horror show Venice beach.

    No I'm not an American, and although the Democrat media in the USA lied that Trump incited the capitol 'riot' it simply isn't true
    "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."
    "We're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them."

    Where is the evidence of incitement? And remember that in the US incitement is a much higher standard than in the UK, which only selectively prosecutes on the issue anyway.
     
  15. Murphy

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    If you're going to attack someone, especially on a personal level, at least try to attack them on something they said rather than making things up. I didn't say "never", i said "There's not been 'White Flight' in Newham", and i said that because a fall of 6% wouldn't (IMO) be considered by any reasonable person to be "flight".

    I'm not sure why you think providing actual facts and evidence is not the intelligent, thinking, thing to do. Or for that matter why you feel the need to 'other' so many people and that anyone is avoiding the problem that immigration brings, the very fact that people are engaging with yourself and The Running Man, and addressing the concerns raised would seem to indicate that people are doing anything but avoiding the problems.

    I don't follow a "political philosophers". I'm perfectly capable of addressing questions about the nature, scope, and legitimacy of public agents and institutions and the relationships between them. I can makeup my own mind on things like politics, liberty, justice, property, rights, law, and the enforcement of laws by authority: what they are, if they are needed, what makes a government legitimate, what rights and freedoms it should protect, what form it should take, what the law is, and what duties citizens owe to a legitimate government, if any, and when it may be legitimately overthrown, if ever. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within your mindset that large swaths of the population are "thicko leftists (all of the) being too unintelligent to think for themselves of problems in the UK" but not all of us need to be told how, or what, to think by whoever Antonio Gramsci is or any other political philosopher.
     
  16. The Running Man

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    Yep that we have growing enclaves of sub 40% white British population in the uk. How is this even a thing in Britain?

    Given the birth rate of these groups respectively do you expect this to improve or get worse?

    Imagine they woke up in Islamabad tomorrow and 40-50% were Jewish or white Christian. How do you think they would feel about that?
     
  17. Nasher

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    We seem to protect all other other cultures except our own for some reason.

    What will the UK be like in 100-200 years? You only have to look at Egypt, it's previous society (which came from the Med area, not the middle east) was completely replaced. They went from superpower to slum.
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2021
  18. Murphy

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    I've edited out your personal insults so hopefully when this post of yours get deleted and you're banned from SC it won't effect my response.

    Having got that out of the way this has already been addressed here, perhaps if you'd attempted to read a few posts backwards you'd have know that and not made such a fool of yourself. Essentially that report you've linked to is a research paper from 20 years ago and it's asking a question not as yourself and The Running Man portrayed at the time a policy
    Well i would imagine it maybe something to do with the native population not being very welcoming and immigrants feeling safer or more comfortable living alongside people who don't have negative preconceived ideas about them simply because of the colour of their skin or the way they talk.

    IDK actually know the "birth rate of these groups respectively", perhaps you like to furnish me with that information from a reliable source (aka: not a Newspaper).

    If people in Islamabad woke up tomorrow and 40-50% were Jewish or white Christian i think they'd be rather confused, even interested, in how half a million Jewish or white Christian managed to setup home overnight without anyone noticing. Or where half a million of their neighbours went. The non-factious answer would be IDK for sure as i don't know enough about the people who live in Islamabad to be able to make that judgment, i would assume if half a million Jewish or white Christian setup home over a period of many years in their city they'd be rather welcoming as my preconception is that Jewish or white Christian would likely bring considerably wealth with them in comparison to the native population.
    What is our culture exactly?
     
  19. The Running Man

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    You're just wrong. And you know it.

    [​IMG]

    Mostly
     
  20. The Running Man

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    https://www.opendoorsuk.org/persecution/world-watch-list/pakistan/


    Either your answer was dishonest or you genuinely have no clue.

    Please explain which?