Immigrants make better Citizens than Natives...?

[disgust]

Ahh the typical "greek" attitude to the UK, you've got money , we want a share of it, roll over and hand it over.
How many million immigrants is a "few" in Greek by the way?

what is your problem with greek people?

 

[VIRII]

what is your problem with greek people?

Greek people? Nothing. Greek posters on OCUK who seem to think that the UK is a honeypot and should hand over its wealth to whoever wants it? Those are the greeks I have issues with. Given that it is an attitude often expressed by the 3 or 4 Greek posters here I don't think that it is necessarily typical of Greek people hence the "greek" in inverted commas.

 

[The Running Man]

Maybe all other groups don't speak English as well and so find it harder to work in an organisation.... maybe they survive so much better on the dole than in their homelands..... you claim my explanation is pure speculation and then offer up..... pure speculation....... genius!

I'd love you to offer more explanation on the "fulfilment of a role". Are you suggesting that pakistani women are expected to be stay at home mums?
If so then why are 1 in 5 claiming the dole? You are supposed to be seeking work......

aye that was the irony of my line, and where i included your own argument, but oh well.

re the "fulfilment of a role" yes, i do think that predominantly there are, or at least were "roles" in the archetypal family. for example, historically in the UK men were the "breadwinners" and women the housemaker? im suggesting that yes pakistani women may indeed expected to stay at home and house make. they claim the dole because they seem to be able to do so. why this is i could not state.

 

[The Running Man]

Of course! Whites unemployed = whites are lazy. Non-whites unemployed = whites are racist.

You really don't have a very high opinion of white people do you

so you dont think that the division between (employment figures of) white women and white men is something to examine more closely? bearing in mind that the majority of the population of this country will consist of the two, i would suggest they are the most important contributers to the economic well-being of the land currently.

 

[disgust]

Greek people? Nothing. Greek posters on OCUK who seem to think that the UK is a honeypot and should hand over its wealth to whoever wants it? Those are the greeks I have issues with. Given that it is an attitude often expressed by the 3 or 4 Greek posters here I don't think that it is necessarily typical of Greek people hence the "greek" in inverted commas.

Then maybe you should have re-phrased some of your previous comments.
Also... I put more money into the UK than I took out of it while I was staying there... ok?
I didn't steal anyone's job...
Please stop hounding my posts with paranoid sentiments or cheap sarcasm as to what you think I want to say.
I've been saying it while you've been twisting it.

I don't want UK wealth to be given away... neither do I want it to be destroyed or lose it's culture or whatever... I just think you are over-exagerating and are slightly paranoid....

What else do i have to explain to stop your aggressive commentary?

 

[VIRII]

im suggesting that yes pakistani women may indeed expected to stay at home and house make. they claim the dole because they seem to be able to do so. why this is i could not state.

They can only claim the dole if they are actively seeking work...... which would not be the case if they are fulfilling expectations of being home makers.
It would make them liars, benefit cheats, scroungers etc.

 

[The Running Man]

They can only claim the dole if they are actively seeking work...... which would not be the case if they are fulfilling expectations of being home makers.
It would make them liars, benefit cheats, scroungers etc.

you mean they can only claim dole if they meet the requirements set out by the government through the job center? i have no doubt that a large percentage of the unemployed in this country defraud the benefit system. unfortunately i cannot find any figures to show in terms of absolute £ where the largest drains are.

 

[dirtydog]

so you dont think that the division between (employment figures of) white women and white men is something to examine more closely? bearing in mind that the majority of the population of this country will consist of the two, i would suggest they are the most important contributers to the economic well-being of the land currently.

I think we should examine the non-whites and the immigrants first. In fact by definition, non-whites are immigrants too of course, even if not first generation.

If immigrants are not pulling their weight, why do we let them come? That's the question we should be asking first. The cold hard figures prove what a disgraceful lie it is that natives are workshy and immigrants are more willing to work.

I think you should ask yourself why you don't like white people very much as well.

 

[The Running Man]

I think we should examine the non-whites and the immigrants first. In fact by definition, non-whites are immigrants too of course, even if not first generation.

If immigrants are not pulling their weight, why do we let them come? That's the question we should be asking first. The cold hard figures prove what a disgraceful lie it is that natives are workshy and immigrants are more willing to work.

I think you should ask yourself why you don't like white people very much as well.

i think you misunderstand my point. the whites make far more of a significant impact to the UK economic situation than all the immigrant groups put together. why would you not start at the root of the problem and then deal with the rest of it?

how does it show that immigrants are any more or any less willing to work than the natives? remember the data does not show intention, or willingness, only the absolute result.

edit, and can you stop your strawman argument saying that i dont like white people. im not going to bite, but you have included it in your previous 2 or 3 posts to me!

 

[VIRII]

you mean they can only claim dole if they meet the requirements set out by the government through the job center? i have no doubt that a large percentage of the unemployed in this country defraud the benefit system. unfortunately i cannot find any figures to show in terms of absolute £ where the largest drains are.

You do however have a graph that shows very clearly where the largest drains are

 

[VIRII]

i think you misunderstand my point. the whites make far more of a significant impact to the UK economic situation than all the immigrant groups put together. why would you not start at the root of the problem and then deal with the rest of it?

You mean they are the bulk of the tax paying people?
I think I'd be inclined to start with communities where 20% of the females claim dole even though it is a widely held belief that they are culturally expected to be home makers.

 

[VIRII]

how does it show that immigrants are any more or any less willing to work than the natives? remember the data does not show intention, or willingness, only the absolute result.

So you believe that 20% of pakistani women are genuinely trying to find work and not really staying at home to meet cultural expectations?

 

[Mr Spew]

eh? how dare you tell me what it is and isnt my opinion if you dont like it tough, just because you dont agree with it, dont go saying its not an opinion.

it is, i am entitled to it, and i will speak my point of view

I didn't say it wasn't an opinion, maybe English isn't your first language either? I said it's not an original opinion, a skewed one that has been fed to you.

Being an angry little child might get you a well deserved suspension. Try reading the FAQ.
Does this drivel mean anything?

Oh dear even the useage of google fails you
Here read this and learn a little...... we've had a falling birthrate for decades and it has been a very long time since we've been reproducing at a rate sufficient to replace those who are dying. Population growth is from immigration......

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=951
Then we are all african? Yet Great Britain did not exist before the ancestors of people living here NOW and in decades past created it. So what? What gives you the right to own the land that your house is on? You (or I suspect your mummy and daddy) have worked for that house, that is what makes it theirs. My ancestors worked to create this country that is what makes it mine. The similarity is obvious to all but the most challenged of people.
I'd argue that I am far more intelligent than you, far less angry and far less insulting. Grow up little child.
Is this playground insulting rant your idea of intelligent debate? Grow up.
I see the question that you were asked has stretched you too much. Quantify how much of a problem teenage mothers ACTUALLY are........
Hmm economics A level wasn't one of your subject choices was it. Have you taken A levels yet? What do you think that tax pays for? Policing, health, education, public services etc. Do you think a low paid job pays enough to cover the services used in tax........
Don't put your peers down so
Nope Northampton is not overcrowded, come to somewhere that is like Luton Heh so you are but a boy after all, seems my "assumption" was accurate. Given that you've started a post by calling me a "moron" do you really think you have some sort of grounds on which to call others childish boy? I pay more income tax that your taxes, rent and bills combined. My mortgage is also higher than your rent, taxes and bills. We aren't all impoverished kids you know.
St Albans is OK, immigrants can't afford to over run it yet. Take a good look at Luton or Watford though I know Northampton, Rugby, Warwick, Leamington etc rather well, I lived there around the time you were born, in fact I left the area when you were 2 years old. Hardly overcrowded, quite a nice area to live in fact.

What garbage. What process? Get on train at Sangatte. Arrive, claim asylum, job done. Let's not forget that the "doctors" who tried to explode cars recently were turned down from Australia because their qualifications weren't good enough for anywhere but here.

And this about sums up the inner thoughts of a racist, who feels the need to condescend upon everyone younger, calling everyone 'beneath' him a child because he's got nothing left to say.

I've graduated from University, so I'm way past my A-Levels, I earn more than you per annum, I'm a little more grown up in my ways than you, sir.

"My mortgage is also higher than your rent, taxes and bills." - I rather doubt that, but hey, you know best.

What process? The process of immigration - perhaps you've not heard or bothered to research it.

"You (or I suspect your mummy and daddy) have worked for that house"

Another childish accusation, I haven't lived at home for a long while - when did you leave, out of pure curiousity? My parents have no hand in my state of living, it's all down to me, cheers.

"Hmm economics A level wasn't one of your subject choices was it."

Nope, because it wasn't available to choose.

Really? Tell me how much financial benefit did Abu Hamza, his wife and 7 children give to this country in taxes......
How much tax does someone on minimum wage pay and how much public services do they consume............. do you think everyone who works is a net benefit to the country?

Come on, I'm waiting for an answer.......

And yet again, after giving you answers you seem persistent in bringing up one or two human beings who differ from the norm.

Do you think people who don't pay tax help the country? That's what a lot of UK citizens are doing, sod all but claiming benefits.

 

[Mr Spew]

So you believe that 20% of pakistani women are genuinely trying to find work and not really staying at home to meet cultural expectations?

Of the 20% of Pakistani women that are unemployed, how many do you think (or even know) are claiming jobseekers? Not many, I'd presume.

Why do they have to find work? Many will be British citizens, so nothing you can do now, thankfully. Not long ago (I'm sure you remember) was it the norm for British women to stay at home and be housewives - many still are.

 

[VIRII]

Of the 20% of Pakistani women that are unemployed, how many do you think (or even know) are claiming jobseekers? Not many, I'd presume.

Why do they have to find work? Many will be British citizens, so nothing you can do now, thankfully. Not long ago (I'm sure you remember) was it the norm for British women to stay at home and be housewives - many still are.

Oh dear lord help this person understand graphs.
The Graph shows that 20% are claiming.......
I know University standards have dropped horrendously in the last 20 years but I did not realise they were turning out this standard of person.

 

[VIRII]

And this about sums up the inner thoughts of a racist, who feels the need to condescend upon everyone younger, calling everyone 'beneath' him a child because he's got nothing left to say.

I speak as spoken to boy, you call me a moron and expect a civil response?
Now how is demeaning you the inner thoughts of a racist? Do you even comprehend what racism is? Your little rant would appear to suggest that you have no idea.

I've graduated from University, so I'm way past my A-Levels, I earn more than you per annum, I'm a little more grown up in my ways than you, sir.

You are 21. You're still very young. I sincerely doubt you earn more than me if you thought £1k a month in rent and bills was heavy lol. Check out the average house prices in St Albans......

"My mortgage is also higher than your rent, taxes and bills." - I rather doubt that, but hey, you know best.

Even a £150k mortgage has payments of almost £1k a month. Then add in gas, electric, council tax (rather steep in St Albans), insurances and so on and you can easily be looking at £2k a month before you've done anything. So yes, I do know better than a kid in rented accomodation in his first job........

What process? The process of immigration - perhaps you've not heard or bothered to research it.

Yes the process of arrive in England and get fed, housed etc. How many illegal immigrants have been sent back in the last 10 years compared to the number that came here....... didn't you know the immigration system is in total chaos? Do you ever watch the News?

"You (or I suspect your mummy and daddy) have worked for that house"

Another childish accusation, I haven't lived at home for a long while - when did you leave, out of pure curiousity? My parents have no hand in my state of living, it's all down to me, cheers.

I left home in 1988/9.
You left home what 1 year ago? Is that a long time? I don't think so....

"Hmm economics A level wasn't one of your subject choices was it."

Nope, because it wasn't available to choose.

If it interests you you can take it at evening classes

And yet again, after giving you answers you seem persistent in bringing up one or two human beings who differ from the norm.

Do you think people who don't pay tax help the country? That's what a lot of UK citizens are doing, sod all but claiming benefits.

20% of pakistani women claim dole. A higher percentage (by far) than ANY other group. 400% higher in percentage terms than white British. Tell me again who is actually the problem.......

So what? So if you have a problem should you exacerbate it? Do their actions mean we should then import yet more people to make it worse? What kind of argument is that? Reminds me of "he started it...."

 

[disgust]

I sincerely doubt you earn more than me if you thought £1k a month in rent and bills was heavy lol. Check out the average house prices in St Albans......

So you're doing ok for yourself... more than ok from what you say actually..

What's your problem with people less fortunate than yourself who go to England to try and make an average living?

Or do you want more money?

 

[The Running Man]

So you believe that 20% of pakistani women are genuinely trying to find work and not really staying at home to meet cultural expectations?

potentially, i could not say as i do not have the data to qualify.i prefer not to speculate as to intentions, feelings, thoughts etc as these are clearly not measured in the cold hard data that DD has provided.

Also, i hope that you do note that in terms of economic inactivity "white immigrants" seem to be very comparable to their "white british" counterparts. Are you willing to accept that some immigrants are infact economically viable.

 

[VIRII]

So you're doing ok for yourself... more than ok from what you say actually..

What's your problem with people less fortunate than yourself who go to England to try and make an average living?

Or do you want more money?

To be honest money is not that strong a motivator to me, if it was I'd change to a different line of work as I could earn far more in different fields.

I do a bit above average for around here, nothing special and my wife earns similar amounts.

I do not have a problem with skilled people coming here for a better life, I do have a problem with millions of immigrants coming here with zero intention of fiting in who aren't actually needed for anything, whose children clog up schools with non english speaking kids for example.
I do have a problem with more of my country being turned into areas like Bradford and Luton.
I do have a problem with the complete lack of control re immigration.
I do have a problem with the sheer scale of immigration.

 

[VIRII]

Also, i hope that you do note that in terms of economic inactivity "white immigrants" seem to be very comparable to their "white british" counterparts. Are you willing to accept that some immigrants are infact economically viable.

I am not, nor have I ever beeen 100% against all immigration.
Some can be good, uncontrolled explosions of immigration can be disasterous.
Immigration has social costs as well, it is not all just bums on seats in factories. Immigration can negatively impact social cohesion, health (rise in TB for example), education (34 different first languages in some london schools) and have knock on costs for local councils with interpreters and so on.
Some immigration brings some benefits. It also brings some costs. To get a true picture you have to look at both sides of the coin. However anyone who sugggests that there might be issues with immigration is immediately branded "racist" by people like whoever it was in this thread who called me a moron and a racist.