Immigrants make better Citizens than Natives...?

[VIRII]

potentially, i could not say as i do not have the data to qualify.i prefer not to speculate as to intentions, feelings, thoughts etc as these are clearly not measured in the cold hard data that DD has provided.

I think the data required to speculate is there.
The number of pakistani women claiming dole at 20% is massively different to any other feamle racial group.

 

[The Running Man]

I think the data required to speculate is there.
The number of pakistani women claiming dole at 20% is massively different to any other feamle racial group.

could it be down to descrimination though? perhaps your prejudice is not allowing you to take an objective viewpoint on this particular data. there is no given context to review it in apart from our own anecdotal experiences which do not extend to the majority of those within a given group.

for example;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gender/story/0,,2023158,00.html

is a source that contradicts what you say, and backs up my thoughts from the previous page.

To get a true picture you have to look at both sides of the coin. However anyone who sugggests that there might be issues with immigration is immediately branded "racist" by people like whoever it was in this thread who called me a moron and a racist.

yes and no. the problem is that certain posters tend to busy themselves by actively seeking out instances of immigrant issues and then posting them in an attempt to portray all immigrants as having the same issues, stigmatising them. sweeping - blanket statements get made with little thought of the real impact to our and other countries societies. i am just trying to redress the balance to ensure that the data is properly analysed and quantified where possible.

 

[VIRII]

could it be down to descrimination though? perhaps your prejudice is not allowing you to take an objective viewpoint on this particular data. there is no given context to review it in apart from our own anecdotal experiences which do not extend to the majority of those within a given group.

Or could it be your willingness to beleive that they don't have a cultural habit of taking all they can get that means that despite that massively disproportionate amount of claims specific to this one racial grouping you want to write it off as racism? So why aren't other racial groups suffering the same? Why are pakistani women alone claiming at double the rate of any other female group? Or could it be that pakistani immigrants are utterly unsuited to life in the Uk....

 

[The Running Man]

Or could it be your willingness to beleive that they don't have a cultural habit of taking all they can get that means that despite that massively disproportionate amount of claims specific to this one racial grouping you want to write it off as racism? So why aren't other racial groups suffering the same? Why are pakistani women alone claiming at double the rate of any other female group? Or could it be that pakistani immigrants are utterly unsuited to life in the Uk....

again did you read the link? is that simply your opinion or do you have data to back this up?

but if you think though this logically it could be for many reasons. im thnking education, potentially racism. We know that natie birthrates have fallen and that growth is coming from other areas - hence the link that i posted.

 

[VIRII]

again did you read the link? is that simply your opinion or do you have data to back this up?

but if you think though this logically it could be for many reasons. im thnking education, potentially racism. We know that natie birthrates have fallen and that growth is coming from other areas - hence the link that i posted.

The data is infront of you. If you are staying at home to raise kids you can't claim dole legally. So that argument is a non starter. Furthermore why is it affecting pakistani women twice as much as any other race...... hmm.
Whilst they might have MORE kids it is not the case that 4x as many pakistani women have kids than white british women. White Brits have 1 or 2 (less than 2 on average) but I am sure a similar percentage of white british women are having kids as pakistani women, just not as many kids each.
But then that is another problem, why have so many kids when you haven't got a job to pay for them? We criticise chavs for it....

 

[FTM]

I always apply the ***** test


I would rather live next door to a polish builder who doesnt talk to me than live next door to a family of charvas who are probably working out how to break into my house each day I leave for work

 

[The Running Man]

The data is infront of you. If you are staying at home to raise kids you can't claim dole legally. So that argument is a non starter. Furthermore why is it affecting pakistani women twice as much as any other race...... hmm.
Whilst they might have MORE kids it is not the case that 4x as many pakistani women have kids than white british women. White Brits have 1 or 2 (less than 2 on average) but I am sure a similar percentage of white british women are having kids as pakistani women, just not as many kids each.
But then that is another problem, why have so many kids when you haven't got a job to pay for them? We criticise chavs for it....

but do we? or do we reward them for it by offering them free housing, and as DD writes we should be given them priority for housing over immigrants who may or may not be of higher economic value..

argument non starter? the article clearly states that women of certain races struggle to find work after childbirth. they may be looking as i stated, you cannot guage intent from outcome when you do not fully understand the other factors which may have impacted the outcome.

 

[VIRII]

but do we? or do we reward them for it by offering them free housing, and as DD writes we should be given them priority for housing over immigrants who may or may not be of higher economic value..

Our welfare state is a disaster for the UK because of the way that it is abused by various groups.

argument non starter? the article clearly states that women of certain races struggle to find work after childbirth. they may be looking as i stated, you cannot guage intent from outcome when you do not fully understand the other factors which may have impacted the outcome.

It quotes an article from Trevor Phillips that tries to blame employers for the lack of pakistani women in work. Perhaps the true cause is simply their culture instead which seems far more likely given the disparity between their numbers and those of other races.

Although the article doesn't implicitly state it it certainly hints that the problem for pakistani women is rather unique to them:

It identified three groups facing "large and persistent" barriers to employment - disabled people, Pakistani and Bangladeshi women and mothers with young children.

If the current rate of progress continues, the employment penalty against mothers will young children will disappear by 2025. However, it may never vanish for disabled people and definitely will not disappear for Pakistani and Bangladeshi women, the report said.

So what are the barriers that will never vanish for pakistani women? Could it be pakistani culture.................. Why don't the same problems exist on that scale for Indian women.............. Nah it is not about racism but sexism and imported culture.

 

[The Running Man]

Our welfare state is a disaster for the UK because of the way that it is abused by various groups.1

It quotes an article from Trevor Phillips that tries to blame employers for the lack of pakistani women in work. Perhaps the true cause is simply their culture instead which seems far more likely given the disparity between their numbers and those of other races.2

Although the article doesn't implicitly state it it certainly hints that the problem for pakistani women is rather unique to them:



So what are the barriers that will never vanish for pakistani women? Could it be pakistani culture.................. Why don't the same problems exist on that scale for Indian women.............. Nah it is not about racism but sexism and imported culture.3

bah you ninja edited as i was quoting, but anyway,

1, so who do you blame? the individuals who abuse, or the robustness of our system? why are you only blaming certain groups for this abuse when you have no real quantifiable evidence to suggest who are the largest drains on the system in terms of absolute £££,

2, perhaps it is the employers. clearly i am not in the affected group and therefore would not be able to provide anecdotal evidence for or against.

3, i do not know, but i also do not have the comparative birthrates between the 2 to compare. Also dont forget we are talking about institutionalised racism which can work both ways...

 

[VIRII]

bah you ninja edited as i was quoting, but anyway,

1, so who do you blame? the individuals who abuse, or the robustness of our system? why are you only blaming certain groups for this abuse when you have no real quantifiable evidence to suggest who are the largest drains on the system in terms of absolute £££,

2, perhaps it is the employers. clearly i am not in the affected group and therefore would not be able to provide anecdotal evidence for or against.

3, i do not know, but i also do not have the comparative birthrates between the 2 to compare. Also dont forget we are talking about institutionalised racism which can work both ways...

1. The robustness of the system is an issue. Particularly if the race card can be played when abusing the system. Still the system is doomed anyway. Before long it'll have to go because there won't be enough people to pay into it in relation to the numbers taking out of it.

2. So employers specifically discriminate against pakistani but not indian women...... LOL.

3. Comparative birthrates? Well going from another thread one in 5 schoolkids is from an ethnic minority and that is 2x the number it was a decade ago. So it should be blatantly obvious that "immigrants" are fast outbreeding natives.

 

[The Running Man]

1. The robustness of the system is an issue. Particularly if the race card can be played when abusing the system. Still the system is doomed anyway. Before long it'll have to go because there won't be enough people to pay into it in relation to the numbers taking out of it.

2. So employers specifically discriminate against pakistani but not indian women...... LOL.

3. Comparative birthrates? Well going from another thread one in 5 schoolkids is from an ethnic minority and that is 2x the number it was a decade ago. So it should be blatantly obvious that "immigrants" are fast outbreeding natives.

right last one this is going in circles.

1, good. hopefully this will give certain groups a kick and force them to upskill and seek employment. maybe in that situation, the attractiveness of our nation will diminish and the transients may dissapear...

2, you forget bangladeshi too. this may come down to education levels and potential suitability for the role. i dont have the numbers for either of the above so would not be able to quantify.

3, no i meant where does the growth come from in terms of growth per extended nationality, i.e is pakistani birthrate higher than, indian for example. again i have no data but that could be why they are showing as higher on the list than indians...