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Innocent until proven Muslim

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by zoomee, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Craterloads

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 26, 2009

    Posts: 8,366

    Location: North

    Take a look yourself, and surely since you mention countries with majority Muslim populations wouldn't it be normal for them to have some form of Islamic law or all out Islamic law? That is a little different to your earlier statements?

    So pretty much the majority, aside from incorporating alongside normal law perfectly acceptable rules for marriage, inheritance and divorce for Muslims.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  2. Castiel

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 26, 2010

    Posts: 63,651

    Turkey for one, in fact most Muslim Countries do not have dominant Sharia Systems, most only allow certain aspects of Sharia in very limited civil circumstances.
     
  3. AR81

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 16, 2010

    Posts: 306

    Just remember, muslims only make just 5% of the population and look whats happening across england? muslim rape gangs, muslims trying to enforce sharia law in many areas up and down the country (Tower Hamets, East London) for one, imagine when muslims reach 50% of the population. what do you think would happen then?

    You both need to wake up to yourselves.
     
  4. zoomee

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 15, 2004

    Posts: 5,773

    Location: Hudds, UK

    And you sir need to get a grip on reality - I suppose your Engilish defense league buddies never do any wrong what so ever either.... :rolleyes:
     
  5. AR81

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 16, 2010

    Posts: 306

    Female genital mutilation - Islam community. :(



    "Uproar over Female Genital Mutilation: Bohra Muslim woman activist launches campaign on Facebook to ban practice"

    http://www.indianmuslimobserver.com/2011/11/uproar-over-female-genital-mutilation.html

    "A UK-wide helpline to protect girls at risk of ritual cutting, practised by some African, Middle Eastern and Asian communities"

    http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Hospi...tory-19569653-detail/story.html#axzz2eIlUYb5T

    Child abuse much?

    One of the many faces of Islam you so proudly protect.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  6. ak22

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 14, 2010

    Posts: 7,031

    Location: South of the Wall

    It even states it in the article that you linked if you bothered to read it that there is no reference to circumcision at all in the Qur'an...... These people are not following Islam they are following there culture.


    Like I said you know nothing about Islam, Islam does no condone rape read the Qur'an and tell me where it condones rape? Just because some one with a muslim background/ or Arabic name commits rape/crime does not mean Islam condones its.

    Your logic is flawed and arrogant here is a example "Catholic priest sexually abuses a child" does that make all Catholics pedofile's? What is the population of Catholics in England? Do you see mass rapes from Catholics happening No.

    Do you research before you start posting crap and slandering other faiths.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  7. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,192

    4:24, 23:1-6 and 70: 29-30? Pretty much allows sex with females slaves. Whilst possible they may have consented, it seems unlikely.

    However the Bible has it's fair share of God accepted rape so it isn't just an Islam thing.
     
  8. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 5, 2006

    Posts: 15,410

    4:24 states that: you may not have sex with a woman who is already married. Sex with a married woman is only permissible if she is a slave* and you are her master. But you must get married to her first before sexual contact.

    *not a "Sex slave", just a slave.

    23:1-6 states that: you must always guard your chastity. Except from your wives or rightly owned and wedlocked slaves. (again not sex slaves, just slaves).

    and 70:29-30 is literally the same as 23:1-6.



    So basically, you cant just own a slave for sex. The slave must be owned by you for legitimate work, not as a sex slave, and you must marry before sexual relations. "[provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property,".


    I personally don't see anything that condones any "rape". But I don't know, I'm open to your interpretations of the script if you want to share or discuss.

    I used http://quran.com and the Sahih International translation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  9. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,192

    As I said, it is possible the slave may have consented to sex, but it seems unlikely. Also both 23 and 70 do not seem to suggest that you have to marry said slave just possess them.
     
  10. ak22

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 14, 2010

    Posts: 7,031

    Location: South of the Wall


    ???? Still don't see anything that allows rape?

    You are not aloud to have sex before marriage in Islam.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  11. AR81

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 16, 2010

    Posts: 306

    And if you're caught doing so, you will be stoned to death or some sort of Honour killing.

    It's Islam and Muslims ignorance of it.
     
  12. AR81

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 16, 2010

    Posts: 306

    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  13. ak22

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 14, 2010

    Posts: 7,031

    Location: South of the Wall

    Who cares what she said?? Who is this women? You said in your previous post "child abuse much? One of the many faces of Islam you so proudly protect." were you correct NO!

    Honour killing is sin in Islam the punishment for wrongfully killing someone is very severe and oneof the major sins.

    “And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein; and the Wrath and the Curse of Allah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him” [al-Nisa’ 4:93]

    Seriously dude just go read about Islam your are just trolling yourself here.



    Do not post images with swearing in - Davey

    I'm out of this thread it has gone off topic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  14. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,192

    You think slaves taken in battle willing have sex with their captors?

    The last two seem to suggest otherwise, allowing sex with "what your right hand posses" e.g. slaves.

    But as I said, being a bit murdery and a bit rapey isn't restricted to Islam, the Old Testament has it's fair share too.
     
  15. asim18

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 5, 2006

    Posts: 15,410

    One does not simply consent to sex in Islam. One must exercise chastity unless wedlocked. Sex is only permissible if married. And this is just what the script you've quoted explains. Basically you are allowed to marry your slave/maid. Whether you rape her or have sex after is down to personal choice not Islam's choice.

    It's merely saying you may marry a slave. It's not saying you must marry your slave so you can **** her. ;)

    It clearly states that you must marry them

    "[provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse."

    That clearly states you must marry them, but you must desire chastity which means you may not simply marry for sex.


    See this is where extremism stems from. There is nothing condoning ****ing your slave in there. Yet in your understanding it does, and I'm assuming you're not even Muslim. This is why I always wonder why God decided to send a book when most of the world would be illiterate to it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  16. phill1978

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 5, 2009

    Posts: 1,226

    Does anyone actually care about this stuff in 2013?

    how does anyones religion or color or whatever effect anyone directly?

    If your a true badass and someone (read ANYONE who threatens you) comes at you preaching something and wont leave or trying to hurt you or your family just smash the f out of them on your property, if its a group get your weapons and tactics improved ..

    I mean you've all played FPS / RPG played the games your should be fairly well trained in tactics by now ?

    What would you do in a post apocalyptic wasteland (perhaps join a faction) well just imagine modern society to be a watered down version of that and your getting somewhere


    My point if its missed is.. if it doesn't directly effect you then just keep an eye on it and be prepared but don't get involved in other peoples stuff because this is an argument about people who are different to you and if you fear that changing you or your family then you know what you need to do but only when they come to your door, the rest of the country isnt 'your' door
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  17. zoomee

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 15, 2004

    Posts: 5,773

    Location: Hudds, UK

    People always fear what they don't understand phil - look at our resident troll AR81 as a prime example ;) - unable to engage in debate, just spams us with islamic hatred found on the usual EDL websites, followed by a quick one liner to justify his posting of crud.



    Back to the non-troll's - RDM - guess you missed the bit in sharia law which sentences a man to death for rape? I stand by asim18 - sex outside of marriage is NOT permitted in Islam.
     
  18. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,192

    I didn't miss it because I was specifically talking about what is written in the Koran rather than any additional writings that have been developed since. Rape is not mentioned in the Koran.

    What is mentioned however that sex is allowed with your wife and with "what your right hand possesses" which is taken to mean slaves taken in war. If you can come up with another meaning for what that phrase means I am all ears.
     
  19. zoomee

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 15, 2004

    Posts: 5,773

    Location: Hudds, UK

    Asim18 did a good job of addressing this typical out of context quote.

    Told you this many a time fella - Islam is not just the qu'ran. Its the qu'ran and the sunnah - If your not going to take the time out to actually learn what your debating about then it looks we have a stalemate.
     
  20. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,192

    Well no he didn't. He posted one interpretation of what the first verse meant, but didn't really say anything about what the second two meant. Why, if you have to marry a slave to have sex with them, do the second two verses specifically mention wives and what your right hand possesses?

    As what is interpreted as acceptable writings outside of the Koran depending on which sect of Islam we are talking about it becomes difficult to determine which documents are considered authoritative. Hence restricting it to the core beliefs.