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Intel - Anti-Competitive, Anti-Consumer, Anti-Technology.

That's an interesting question. Are there other pro's for the 7700X?
So in that case who would buy a 7700X for 75% more than the price of the 1600? It does seem madness. And another question is, if they're selling well, why are there yet more offers on Ryzen chips? £188 today at OCUK for the 1600 :), a discount on an already very competively priced CPU.
 
humbug said:
Right... at least thats not the case right now, R5 1600 here for £200 is the 7700K really worth £150 more for 9%? or the 7800X for 0%?

I don't think it is, especially given the Ryzen 1600 is better at everything else.

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Totally agree, Ryzen is great and would recommend it to anyone and will be going AMD myself when Threadripper hits. However, look at the last few generations, AMD has been nowhere close on performance and people here were 95% intel. I was too and it's not a bad thing. It's easy to criticise a company when they're down... when Intel were so far on top we didn't see many of these discussions.
 
Oh Oh Oh... yes, Bulldozer was a disaster, yes i agree ^^^

DarrenM343 said:
That's an interesting question. Are there other pro's for the 7700X?
So in that case who would buy a 7700X for 75% more than the price of the 1600? It does seem madness. And another question is, if they're selling well, why are there yet more offers on Ryzen chips? £188 today at OCUK for the 1600 :), a discount on an already very competively priced CPU.
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The 7700K makes a better room heater?

Giggo is a fan of AMD's chips right now and he wants to spread the love. :)
 
Tom B said:
Totally agree, Ryzen is great and would recommend it to anyone and will be going AMD myself when Threadripper hits. However, look at the last few generations, AMD has been nowhere close on performance and people here were 95% intel. I was too and it's not a bad thing. It's easy to criticise a company when they're down... when Intel were so far on top we didn't see many of these discussions.
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I think intel have made it worse with all the mud slinging. Add that to the shady practices we see here and they look dodgy af
 
haszek said:
For me the thing from this video was that AMD wasn't crap because they were releasing crappy processors. Community was just bashing AMD for having poor development etc. How they could move forward in an expensive market like this if nobody was buying from them (even when they had top CPUs).

Intel really stopped development. People were saying why would they release something faster generation after generation, if there is no competition, while in fact intel was keeping competition in a cage and controlling development of the whole market.
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That is very true. If Intel never held AMD back during the Athlon era where they dominated performance we could be seeing a way different market today. Imagine if Bulldozer was never delayed by around 2 years and they actually released it in 2009 to compete against Nehalem rather than in 2011 to compete against Sandy Bridge. We also might have seen Zen on 28nm in 2013/2014 before zen 2 on 14nm in 2016/17.
 
Tom B said:
Totally agree, Ryzen is great and would recommend it to anyone and will be going AMD myself when Threadripper hits. However, look at the last few generations, AMD has been nowhere close on performance and people here were 95% intel. I was too and it's not a bad thing. It's easy to criticise a company when they're down... when Intel were so far on top we didn't see many of these discussions.
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Dont forget, Intel were on top in end consumer eyes, because non of us really knew until now, what they were upto, they basically blocked AMD from selling to manufacturers with pay offs and bribes, therfore, AMD not making much money, wheres the R & D costs coming from.

One thing that made me laugh is these other companies like Dell, HP, levono etc, they had customers asking them to use AMD CPUs, yup, thats me and you asking Dell etc to use the cheaper AMD CPUs in their systems, and they pretty much refused as Intel was paying them off, until Dell actually got fed up of the customers going elsewhere to companies that would actually use AMD chips, and then HP ?????? what is with them, turned down a million FREE! yup thats free CPU's from AMD because they didnt want to loose out on Intels bribery payouts.

Towards the end of that Video, we were very lucky that they didnt send AMD bust, its been known for a long time that AMD didnt have much money left and RyZen was make or break for them, which lets face it, this was Intels intentions, the scary part is nVidia would be next who Intel could basically bankrupt overnight by blocking their GPUs form accessing Intels PCI-e lanes, WTF, where would that leave us all, no AMD, that means no ATI graphics cards, no nVidia, means no nVidia Graphics cards, we would all be stuck with Intel's CPUs and their crappy on-board graphics, bye bye to high end gaming, what the hell do Intel think they were doing.
 
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After watching this video i now have a new perspective of how epic they EPYC launch day was. I now understand what it meant when AMD was parading dell, HP and sunmicro on the stage like it was some sort of catwalk.
I understand why Mark Papermaster(think thats his name) looked so smug in this picture (on the left) http://images.anandtech.com/doci/11562/14979925311991959276815.jpg
No wonder Intel released a statement a couple of hours after the laucnh day because It must have been so painful for them to watch their "friends" on stage with AMD.

I didn't realise how deep this went; and this is the stuff we know about. It's scary to think that hp couldn't afford to take 1 million free cpus. AMD literally couldn't give away there cpus (pretty sure we joked about this during the bulldozer era).

I know everyone is talking about how Intel has lots of money and how they can compete with AMD with just a bit of time. But the thing is I don't think Intel knows how to compete. They need people who can innovate and I think over the years the people in Intel who could do this have probably found that their blades are now quite dull. Didn't some people come across a job posting recently for intel for creating a new architecture. They should already have such people in house.
Yes they can throw money trying to higher the right people but don't underestimate the need for job satisfaction. Money only goes so far.

Before I saw this video, I would have been happy to see AMD at 50% market share (we really need a healthy market). But now I want them to wipe the floor with Intel (Would have preferred if the government was the one doing the punishing but they are useless). Maybe once they are on the backfoot and on the brink of dying they might have an epiphany and change there company practices (Wishful thinking?).
Then we can talk about how evil AMD is for having a monopoly :p
 
Been reading comments round the web about this vid. Have to say i'm surprised by how many folks are ... Well, surprised by this. Intel is as shady as they come, though the eye is firmly on them these days and i don't think they'd get away with this so easily today.
 
Burr said:
Been reading comments round the web about this vid. Have to say i'm surprised by how many folks are ... Well, surprised by this. Intel is as shady as they come, though the eye is firmly on them these days and i don't think they'd get away with this so easily today.
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It also surprises me how many peeps are "surprised" about this. I've been into rig building since the early 1990's and benching since the early 2000's. Anyone around in the early 2000's that used Athlon's and after that Opteron's will know full well that AMD cpu's simply destroyed anything that Intel had at the time.
It was obvious as well that something dirty was going on behind the scenes because even though AMD was streets ahead of Intel (and even then were a hell of a lot cheaper), hardly any of the major OEM's used AMD, other than Dell in laptops at the time.

I'd like to think, like you Burr, that it would be unlikely to happen today. But if you look at the one major high street computer retailer that we have left in the uk now and look through every laptop and computer they sell, over 95% have Intel inside. It is still going on, but probably use whatsapp now instead of e-mail (no trail then).
 
kitfit1 said:
It also surprises me how many peeps are "surprised" about this. I've been into rig building since the early 1990's and benching since the early 2000's. Anyone around in the early 2000's that used Athlon's and after that Opteron's will know full well that AMD cpu's simply destroyed anything that Intel had at the time.
It was obvious as well that something dirty was going on behind the scenes because even though AMD was streets ahead of Intel (and even then were a hell of a lot cheaper), hardly any of the major OEM's used AMD, other than Dell in laptops at the time.
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I was, I had many Athlon XP's, they were easy to pencil mod, from 2600+'s to 3200s etc and also had an Opteron, cant remember the numbers behind that one though, and I was also aware they stomped all over Intel at the time, if I remember correctly, I think Intel had the Prescott around about that time, which was an overheating toaster, but although I was into the PC building side of things, I didnt really look at the pre-built side of things like HP, Dell etc, so I was non the wiser.
 
kitfit1 said:
I'd like to think, like you Burr, that it would be unlikely to happen today. But if you look at the one major high street computer retailer that we have left in the uk now and look through every laptop and computer they sell, over 95% have Intel inside. It is still going on, but probably use whatsapp now instead of e-mail (no trail then).
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Yeah i can remember those days well. There weren't many enthusiasts running Intel chips back then and it seemed like AMD and Intel were constantly trying to one up each other with new chips getting released regularly. Fun times.
I wouldn't say it's impossible for Intel to pull a fly one like they did before but it is harder, it'd require no paper/electronic trail on both ends of the deal. Truth is it's only recently that AMD has had a CPU worth shouting about so it could take time for things to 'mature' in terms of market penetration/recognition. We'll see how it goes.
 
I think the enthusiast market is what kept AMD going during those years but barely. I knew about some of the cross licensing and some of the dirty practices Intel was doing, I didn't realise how early it started and how bad during the Athlon/Athlon64/AthlonX2 period where it was AMD prime time and Intel was throwing money at the manufacturers (and retailers) going don't use/get AMD. I am surprised Intel was never fined that much for the practice...1 stage.$1bn to Dell every quarter, EC fined them $1.15bn I think.
 
[QUOTE="nshire, post: 31006657, member: 36481]1 stage.$1bn to Dell every quarter, EC fined them $1.15bn I think.[/QUOTE]

Yep, beggers belief that a company that must have paid well over $14Bn to another company in bribes over a 14 year period only get a $1.5Bn fine..............................................and they are even as we type still stringing out the appeal and so far havn't paid a single Euro.
 
So many people are surprised by it because most people - even those who follow tech closely - aren't following it in this kind of detail. Many know that Intel are anti-competitive but without knowing why.

I actually think the video is a bit boring and far from being my best, but the reaction to it has been the best I've ever had by a long distance. The reason for that is that people just didn't know the depths of Intel's behaviour.

The video was top of the Intel Reddit for nearly 2 days and the vast majority of the posts there were in full agreement and pretty much in shock over how much Intel has got away with.
 
I was aware of Intel's bribing OEM's, just not the extent and the amounts. Billions of dollars a year just to Dell alone.

And they got fined a relative paltry 1.5 billion which they still haven't paid. Unbelievable.
 
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