Intel's Alder Lake CPUs May Not Work With Older Games

[Purgatory]

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/intel-alder-lake-cpus-may-not-work-with-older-games

Intel recently shared a developer guide for its forthcoming 12th Generation Alder Lake processors. Gamer's Gospel discovered an interesting tidbit that DRM solutions, such as Denuvo will require updates to support Alder Lake's hybrid design.

Gamers typically upgrade to a new processor to get better performance in games. However, Alder Lake may not be plug-n-play and command special attention from DRM developers. Intel has confirmed in the document that Alder Lake will have compatibility issues with DRM solutions unless the provider issues a special update for the protection in question. Consequently, game developers that implemented the DRM into their games will have to do the same.

"If your existing or upcoming game uses a DRM middleware, you might want to contact the middleware provider and confirm that it supports hybrid architectures in general, and the upcoming Intel ADL platform in particular. Due to the nature of modern DRM algorithms, it might use CPU detection, and should be aware of the upcoming hybrid platforms. Intel is working with leading DRM providers such as Denuvo* to make sure their solutions support new platforms."

Many, if not all, modern triple-A titles carry some type of DRM protection to defend against piracy. Intel specifically mentioned the Denuvo algorithm, however, we suspect that other protections, such as VMProtect or SecuROM will likely necessitate an update as well. Certain games, like Assassin's Creed Origins even have multiple layers of protection, probably requiring multiple updates.

It shouldn't be a huge issue for modern games since developers will in all likelihood provide the update for Alder Lake. The problem arises for older titles that are a couple of years old that likely won't get any updates, meaning they'll be unplayable on Alder Lake chips. There are many gems out there that have high replay value so gamers will be annoyed that they can't play them on the shiny, new Alder Lake processor that they just bought.

Some game developers eventually remove DRM protections when significant time has passed since the game's launch, but that's not the case for every title. Sometimes developers deploy DRM-free versions of their games on platforms, including GOG. If neither situation is viable, gamers may be forced to resort to piracy despite legally owning the game.

 

[q974739]

Corporate users: IT only just upgraded to W10, they won't let us have W11.

Gamers: Why would I want something that can't play all my games?

Remind me who is going to buy this??

 

[scubes]

to be honest i think AL must suck at games...

 

[kitfit1]

This little snippet of information could go a very long way to explain why we have seen next to no gaming benchmarks yet on ADL.
It looks more and more that anyone who places a pre-order for ADL and is also a regular gamer may well come to regret that decision.

 

[EsaT]

This little snippet of information could go a very long way to explain why we have seen next to no gaming benchmarks yet on ADL.

Don't forget DDR5's memory latency also being bad for gaming (especially minimums) performance.
Besides scheduling "challenges" with big.little.

Wouldn't really be wonder, if some game benchmarks will be run with little cores disabled in BIOS.
Which apparently also enables AVX-512 for full cores...

Intel is no doubt pushing very specific "guides" for how to benchmark Alder Lake for different things.
Also very suspicious how Wintoys11 has broken scheduling for Ryzens.

 

[Destination]

Sounds like Intel passing the buck tbh.
They changed the process, they programmed the task scheduler, now is seems like in many cases they haven't been able to program enough of a scheduler, so they are suggesting the games manufacture do so.
It'll be interesting to see if they bother.
I thought most things had dropped DRM now?

 

[humbug]

Ok but why tho? What is it about ADL that's different from all previous Intel CPU's that requires special coding from these developers in order for their DRM protection to work on these new CPU's?

And will this special code that needs to be added for ADL have any performance impact on older CPU's? I'm asking because its Intel who are requesting every game that uses DRM to be modified especially for them.

 

[Minstadave]

Ok but why tho? What is it about ADL that's different from all previous Intel CPU's that requires special coding from these developers in order for their DRM protection to work on these new CPU's?

And will this special code that needs to be added for ADL have any performance impact on older CPU's? I'm asking because its Intel who are requesting every game that uses DRM to be modified especially for them.

It's to do with assigning the game threads to the big cores. DRM apparently interferes with the scheduling so game threads can be assigned to little cores with resulting poor performance.

 

[Grim5]

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/intel-alder-lake-cpus-may-not-work-with-older-games

Intel recently shared a developer guide for its forthcoming 12th Generation Alder Lake processors. Gamer's Gospel discovered an interesting tidbit that DRM solutions, such as Denuvo will require updates to support Alder Lake's hybrid design.

Gamers typically upgrade to a new processor to get better performance in games. However, Alder Lake may not be plug-n-play and command special attention from DRM developers. Intel has confirmed in the document that Alder Lake will have compatibility issues with DRM solutions unless the provider issues a special update for the protection in question. Consequently, game developers that implemented the DRM into their games will have to do the same.

"If your existing or upcoming game uses a DRM middleware, you might want to contact the middleware provider and confirm that it supports hybrid architectures in general, and the upcoming Intel ADL platform in particular. Due to the nature of modern DRM algorithms, it might use CPU detection, and should be aware of the upcoming hybrid platforms. Intel is working with leading DRM providers such as Denuvo* to make sure their solutions support new platforms."

Many, if not all, modern triple-A titles carry some type of DRM protection to defend against piracy. Intel specifically mentioned the Denuvo algorithm, however, we suspect that other protections, such as VMProtect or SecuROM will likely necessitate an update as well. Certain games, like Assassin's Creed Origins even have multiple layers of protection, probably requiring multiple updates.

It shouldn't be a huge issue for modern games since developers will in all likelihood provide the update for Alder Lake. The problem arises for older titles that are a couple of years old that likely won't get any updates, meaning they'll be unplayable on Alder Lake chips. There are many gems out there that have high replay value so gamers will be annoyed that they can't play them on the shiny, new Alder Lake processor that they just bought.

Some game developers eventually remove DRM protections when significant time has passed since the game's launch, but that's not the case for every title. Sometimes developers deploy DRM-free versions of their games on platforms, including GOG. If neither situation is viable, gamers may be forced to resort to piracy despite legally owning the game.

All you have to Do is disable the little cores until drm is updated for big.little

 

[kitfit1]

It's to do with assigning the game threads to the big cores. DRM apparently interferes with the scheduling so game threads can be assigned to little cores with resulting poor performance.

If that is the case, then it must be up to Intel to sort the mess out that they created. If their latest and greatest is rubbish in games, and breaks DRM, it's nobody's fault other than their own.
Why should games developers fall over backwards just stop Intel looking like the dickheads that they are.

 

[Grim5]

Sounds like Intel passing the buck tbh.
They changed the process, they programmed the task scheduler, now is seems like in many cases they haven't been able to program enough of a scheduler, so they are suggesting the games manufacture do so.
It'll be interesting to see if they bother.
I thought most things had dropped DRM now?

It's a fundamental change to pc hardware, software must now catch up with new hardware architecture

Ok but why tho? What is it about ADL that's different from all previous Intel CPU's that requires special coding from these developers in order for their DRM protection to work on these new CPU's?

And will this special code that needs to be added for ADL have any performance impact on older CPU's? I'm asking because its Intel who are requesting every game that uses DRM to be modified especially for them.

The thread title is misleading at best

Corporate users: IT only just upgraded to W10, they won't let us have W11.

Gamers: Why would I want something that can't play all my games?

Remind me who is going to buy this??

Of course it can play games, OP is extremely misleading.
l

 

[Minstadave]

It’s been discussed. Gamers would be better off disabling the small cores. I can’t see this being difficult, even for the plug and play gamer. This is very misleading information.

It's a pretty embarrassing fix if that is needed. Intel have had to fix their MT performance by bodging on a load of small cores (because their large cores are so power hungry), then you have to turn the small cores off.

 

[pete910]

Yet ironically, Mobile CPU's as in phones ect have managed fine for years

Think it's been blown a little out of proportion. Yes it will have issues at first but I'm pretty certain they will get ironed out fairly sharpish.

 

[Destination]

All you have to Do is disable the little cores until drm is updated for big.little

Can this happen on the fly, or mean accessing BIOS for disabling every single time you boot?

I'm wondering how many remember the 'turbo' button on the front of PCs prior to the original pentium days

 

[pete910]

Can this happen on the fly, or mean accessing BIOS for disabling every single time you boot?

I'm wondering how many remember the 'turbo' button on the front of PCs prior to the original pentium days

Showing your age there fella

 

[humbug]

It's to do with assigning the game threads to the big cores. DRM apparently interferes with the scheduling so game threads can be assigned to little cores with resulting poor performance.

Ok that makes sense, AMD have similar scheduling but they do it through a combination of their own software (the chipset drivers) and Windows.
Its the multichiplet CPU's, the 5900X and 5950X, you don't want games scheduling outside of the chiplet because that adds latency, windows 10 allows AMD's drivers to override the windows scheduler and keep everything with in the chiplet, be that all in one chiplet or two it doesn't mater as long as the scheduling isn't moving from one to the other.
That's what's broken in Windows 11, as well as the L3 cache speed being gimped.

I don't know why Intel can't also do their scheduling through their own drivers, the fact that Intel want people to rewrite their software for them worries me.

If that is the case, then it must be up to Intel to sort the mess out that they created. If their latest and greatest is rubbish in games, and breaks DRM, it's nobody's fault other than their own.
Why should games developers fall over backwards just stop Intel looking like the dickheads that they are.

AMD do, as i said above i don't understand why Intel can't do the same.

With games that are 3 or more years old most probably will not bother, which means ADL performance on those games might be bad, expect reviews of ADL to be very selective in what games they use.

Intel's code may well break AMD's drivers, just like it seemingly has in Win 11, i hope everyone tell Intel to "shove it, you have 0 marketshare with ADL"

 

[jigger]

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/intel-alder-lake-cpus-may-not-work-with-older-games

Intel recently shared a developer guide for its forthcoming 12th Generation Alder Lake processors. Gamer's Gospel discovered an interesting tidbit that DRM solutions, such as Denuvo will require updates to support Alder Lake's hybrid design.

Gamers typically upgrade to a new processor to get better performance in games. However, Alder Lake may not be plug-n-play and command special attention from DRM developers. Intel has confirmed in the document that Alder Lake will have compatibility issues with DRM solutions unless the provider issues a special update for the protection in question. Consequently, game developers that implemented the DRM into their games will have to do the same.

"If your existing or upcoming game uses a DRM middleware, you might want to contact the middleware provider and confirm that it supports hybrid architectures in general, and the upcoming Intel ADL platform in particular. Due to the nature of modern DRM algorithms, it might use CPU detection, and should be aware of the upcoming hybrid platforms. Intel is working with leading DRM providers such as Denuvo* to make sure their solutions support new platforms."

Many, if not all, modern triple-A titles carry some type of DRM protection to defend against piracy. Intel specifically mentioned the Denuvo algorithm, however, we suspect that other protections, such as VMProtect or SecuROM will likely necessitate an update as well. Certain games, like Assassin's Creed Origins even have multiple layers of protection, probably requiring multiple updates.

It shouldn't be a huge issue for modern games since developers will in all likelihood provide the update for Alder Lake. The problem arises for older titles that are a couple of years old that likely won't get any updates, meaning they'll be unplayable on Alder Lake chips. There are many gems out there that have high replay value so gamers will be annoyed that they can't play them on the shiny, new Alder Lake processor that they just bought.

Some game developers eventually remove DRM protections when significant time has passed since the game's launch, but that's not the case for every title. Sometimes developers deploy DRM-free versions of their games on platforms, including GOG. If neither situation is viable, gamers may be forced to resort to piracy despite legally owning the game.

Lots of stuff will not work with Alderlake.

 

[silvagti]

Another thought i had was will Intel's new Alder Lake core architecture and the need to optimise for it negatively impact the performance of non-Intel x86 architectures like AMD once these optimisations are implemented?

Will software now need to be optimised for Intel and Ryzen CPU's separately?

 

[humbug]

Another thought i had was will Intel's new Alder Lake core architecture and the need to optimise for it negatively impact the performance of non-Intel x86 architectures like AMD once these optimisations are implemented?

Will software now need to be optimised for Intel and Ryzen CPU's separately?

Read this.... something smells off to me.

Ok that makes sense, AMD have similar scheduling but they do it through a combination of their own software (the chipset drivers) and Windows.
Its the multichiplet CPU's, the 5900X and 5950X, you don't want games scheduling outside of the chiplet because that adds latency, windows 10 allows AMD's drivers to override the windows scheduler and keep everything with in the chiplet, be that all in one chiplet or two it doesn't mater as long as the scheduling isn't moving from one to the other.
That's what's broken in Windows 11, as well as the L3 cache speed being gimped.

I don't know why Intel can't also do their scheduling through their own drivers, the fact that Intel want people to rewrite their software for them worries me.



AMD do, as i said above i don't understand why Intel can't do the same.

With games that are 3 or more years old most probably will not bother, which means ADL performance on those games might be bad, expect reviews of ADL to be very selective in what games they use.

Intel's code may well break AMD's drivers, just like it seemingly has in Win 11, i hope everyone tell Intel to "shove it, you have 0 marketshare with ADL"

 

[jigger]

Corporate users: IT only just upgraded to W10, they won't let us have W11.

Gamers: Why would I want something that can't play all my games?

Remind me who is going to buy this??

The majority of the market.

 

[jigger]

Read this.... something smells off to me.

Lots of hand holding required form Intel. The issue is how much forward effort will Intel make for these ghosts of the past?