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Is 8k for home cinema absolutely pointless?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema & Hi-Fi' started by rubberduck, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. rubberduck

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 8, 2004

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    As title, based on screen size, viewing distance and the fact that non-imax cinema footage is effectively 4k... What would ever be the point of 8k in a home environment? Isn't 35mm film effectively around 4k anyway?

    Jump from SD to 1080p was massive, from 1080p to 4k provides an improvement with certain screen sizes but is heavily in to diminishing returns for most. 4k to 8k probably only a benefit on commercial cinema screens and certainly not in a home cinema environment?
     
  2. wellibob

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    Joined: Mar 27, 2006

    Posts: 3,852

    8k is great. However the equipment to run it and the file size to transmit / download it is currently insane. When downloading 100gb takes about 1 mins and ssd storage space is 8tb drives for £90 then 4k is, plenty this day.
     
  3. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 9,729

    I have to go and stand in front of the screen and peer at it to see the pixels on my 4k projector...the switch from 1080p to 4k is noticeable and better but not night and day like SD to HD.

    I don't know what 8k offers other than sales figures.
     
  4. lucid

    Soldato

    Joined: May 29, 2010

    Posts: 5,337

    Location: Cheshire

    You can't say it's pointless in an absolute way because someone somewhere will make a justified case for having it.

    It's still early days for 8K. Although product has been around a while the price jump from the same size in a 4K UHD unit has been significant. That'll probably change in the next 2-3 years as the cycle of increased product->lower prices->more sales->increased production starts to gain momentum.

    Content is available too, but not yet from the mainstream channels. There's stuff on Youtube and Vimeo.... if you've got the PC hardware and/or broadband speeds to support it. The vast majority of us don't though. That's no big loss actually because most of what I've seen so far looks like demo reels showcasing what a camera can do rather than a full- or feature-length- production that you'd want to sit down and watch.

    I think mainstream content such as feature films and TV series is going to be limited to 4K or even 2K where CGI is required for some time to come until the editing studios upgrade for the new format. But I don't think that will stop 8K TV sales any more than the lack of real 4K/2K content stopped 4K UHD TV sales. When the price is low enough, then people will buy the 'new' technology even if the TV isn't as good as the 4K UHD TV it replaces. People like numbers.
     
  5. hornetstinger

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 6, 2016

    Posts: 6,956

    Can't wait until 8k iwatches come out.
     
  6. Poneros

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    Joined: Feb 18, 2015

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    For home cinema? It's definitely in the diminishing returns category. There's an argument to be made in the context of gaming but even there newer games are so post-process heavy on the AA side it becomes useful very very rarely (ignoring whether you could run them in the first place).

    Tbh for movies & shows I don't know that I care about even 4K that much.
     
  7. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 69,047

    The only thing I can think of right now is if your device has a decent upscale + processing feature(s) and even then it won't be night and day. My projector for instance does a surprisingly good job of taking lower resolution movies and enhancing them to native res so I guess you could do the same for 4K to 8K if the hardware is up to it.
     
  8. TALON1973

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    8k has no chance if 4k can’t even kill off dvd :rolleyes:
     
  9. varkanoid

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 31, 2007

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    Location: The TARDIS, Wakefield, UK

    bluray failed.
     
  10. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 9,729

    8k is just going to a niche for people with lots of money they want to get rid of...the infrastructure for delivering content just isn't there and won't be for a long time.

    Plus the limits of the human optical system mean it's simply not relevant for anything but the most massive home cinema setups.

    If there were parallel trends involved, like the size of the average living room going up, maybe, but I'd wager the reverse is true.
     
  11. Troezar

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    Most people aren't even watching or getting the most out of 4K most of the time. There is a big difference between streamed 1080p and Blu-ray. We're a long way off streaming high quality 4K for everything. I'll upgrade to 4K when my internet infrastructure can cope, by then it will be even cheaper. As for 8K, a niche product for the wealthy for the next 10 years I reckon.
     
  12. Mr_Sukebe

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    Joined: Dec 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,034

    Location: London

    Is there any content recorded in 8k?
    I got the impression that the majority of the more recently filmed films were using 4k capable cameras.
    I knew a chap who worked in CGI and he was saying that some CGI clips even now aren't in 4k because of the processing costs.

    So whilst the screen might be interesting, I'm not sure if there's any material capable of being replayed, not unless you revisit old 70mm again to re-digitise, or simply rely on new recordings. Anything filmed in digital in the last however long would simply be being upscaled.
     
  13. iamtheoneneo

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    Location: Bucks

    Most CGI is 2K, and the entire movie gets downsampled to 2k for the work and then upscaled again to 4k for the finish. Some of these movies are being shot in 6k only to be absolutely destroyed in post, hell some very popular movies arent even being shot in 4k to begin with but 3.2K on ALEXA XT's
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  14. aoaaron

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    Joined: May 19, 2012

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    8K is kind of relevant if you're projecting 120inch+ images but even then, I struggle to find a difference between 4k and LCD 4k-eshift on projectors.

    In PC gaming, yes sure you can tell the difference to a degree. In films and TV, its not IMO.

    Cost should go elsewhere.
     
  15. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 12,903

    Location: Here and There...

    I think we are well into the diminishing returns with screen resolutions! VHS to DVD is still the biggest improvement for me! DVD to Blu-Ray is still noticeable but not the same absolute night and day difference and the 4K jump
    Just doesn’t seem worth it let alone going beyond that. I’d much rather see investment in improving picture quality through stuff like HDR and better screen technology at current resolutions.
     
  16. aoaaron

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    Joined: May 19, 2012

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    I think diminishing returns kicked in for media (films + TV) @ Blu-Ray. A good 1080p blu-ray matches a 4k rip, but HDR is the tipping point for buying into it. 4k imo has highly benefited streamed content the most. i can see a big difference 1080p streamed and 4k streamed. native disc content not so much.

    For gaming, I think 4k is where diminishing returns has arrived (with ray tracing probably being the tipping point for us to further invest).
     
  17. Grim5

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    Japan has 3 native 8k TV channels, so yes, at least in Japan there have been 8k broadcasts and content for the last 12 months
     
  18. hornetstinger

    Soldato

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    Japan has 500 gigaquad network connection, you can download the internet in 0.000000001 milliseconds
     
  19. Mr_Sukebe

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    LOL, I can picture what most of their content is. As per normal, technology being driven by....
     
  20. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 33,397

    Probably be 5-10 years before it becomes readily available. It's pointless for now for sure. But that will change with time.

    I remember when people thought HD was pointless.

    The biggest fight is though panel quality. If people are watching high res stuff on crap tv's that is pointless. I mean you cannot really see the definition on a lot of cheap 4k panels with crap processing.

    OLED is now at a point where 99% of people should be buying it but only 1% are.