Is Islam compatible with atheism/lack of belief ?

[Surfer]

Ultimately..... (as in the ultimate goal)

NO

because they will either try to kill us or convert us OR make life much more difficult for us when they become the majority (we have a got a while to go yet though haha X amount of years)

 

[Paul_cz]

This so called whataboutery is no such thing. If you want to constantly make Islam a pariah while ignoring everything else then it's extremely useful to work out its position relative to other known entities. The continuous insistance that this shouldn't be the case is just used to stifle the debate.

Reality is Islam and Muslims are no better or worse than any other ideology.

To answer the OPs question - the vast majority of Muslims are just like anyone else, yes there are those that come from culturally more conservative places and don't necessarily agree with everything most in western societies agree with, but again the vast majority will put up and just get on with life like everyone else.

Yes a lot from conservative locations may have issues with homosexuality for example, but like the significant number of people already in the UK (or Czech Republic) that also have similar views the vast majority will just keep it to themselves.

You'll generally find that those with the biggest issues with people for othe rlocations, cultures and religions are those that interact with those people the least. The news is filled with negativity (on all subjects) and as such all their "interactions are negative. Those that spend more time around others generally see that people are people and there is no more reason to have issues with one group than another, because they actually know people and can relate in real life.

Reality is Islam and Muslims are no better or worse than any other ideology.

Right. So it is not just muslims who have commited over 30,000 mass massacres in the last 15 years in the name of their God, but Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Jainists etc did as well, right ?

Because Islam is totally the same as Jainism. Their scriptures are the same, their principles are the same.

Wait, that's actually nonsense.

And the media bias - the news is filled with negativity because muslims commit attrocities like clockwork on regular basis. Kinda hard to ignore it. Media still tries to do their best to pretend otherwise, then you get manipulative headlines like:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6R2dobWYAIntF7.jpg

And regarding vast majorities of muslims being "like anyone else" (I assume you mean us atheists/europeans), I wish that was true. But only the hardcore fundamental subsect of Islam, Wahhabism, has estimated 50 million adherents. That is insane. And even nonwahhabists, from countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi, UAE..how many do you think have values that go counter to ours ? Why are atheists in muslim majority countries persecuted, often murdered ? Why are Christian Kopts getting slaughtered in Egypt ?

Just like pretty much every other religion "demands" special treatment based upon religious justification?

How about the Christians insisting they shouldn't be allowed to make cakes for gay people, or allow gay people to get married in a church. How about Jews insisting on an almost identical method of slaughter?

That's not whataboutery it pointing out the double standards of most of the arguments used against Islam.

Be consistent here - either condemn all religions or none. Don't pick and choose based on how you view that religion, giving some a pass and others condemnation on the same issues just because your used oto one and not the other, or because you view is as a traditional "Western" view/religion.

I absolutely condemn all religions that cause harm. And ideologies or even economic systems too, like communism and socialism.

Still doesn't mean all religions/ideologies are equal, and cause equal harm in present time. To claim otherwise is being delusional.

 

[Narj]

I've recently been looking into a trip to Iran for a holiday (something a bit different). This is one thing that's mentioned in a couple of guides actually - pretty much, "don't say you're atheist!"

 

[dowie]

And how do you create this period of reformation? And how do you force all the different sects and followers of different interpretations to follow your version of Islam?

And there in lies the fundamental problem of "reforming" an entire religion, all you're going to do is create another interpretation. You can try reforming individual versions if you want, but that's a very different task to reforming an entire religion.

I didn't suggest that I personally could - pointing out that reform is needed doesn't imply that I have the means to carry out the reform. I do think the Quilliam foundation ought to be supported though.

 

[Amp34]

Reality is Islam and Muslims are no better or worse than any other ideology.

Right. So it is not just muslims who have commited over 30,000 mass massacres in the last 15 years in the name of their God, but Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Jainists etc did as well, right ?

Because Islam is totally the same as Jainism. Their scriptures are the same, their principles are the same.

Wait, that's actually nonsense.

And the media bias - the news is filled with negativity because muslims commit attrocities like clockwork on regular basis. Kinda hard to ignore it. Media still tries to do their best to pretend otherwise, then you get manipulative headlines like:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6R2dobWYAIntF7.jpg

And regarding vast majorities of muslims being "like anyone else" (I assume you mean us atheists/europeans), I wish that was true. But only the hardcore fundamental subsect of Islam, Wahhabism, has estimated 50 million adherents. That is insane. And even nonwahhabists, from countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi, UAE..how many do you think have values that go counter to ours ? Why are atheists in muslim majority countries persecuted, often murdered ? Why are Christian Kopts getting slaughtered in Egypt ?



I absolutely condemn all religions that cause harm. And ideologies or even economic systems too, like communism and socialism.

Still doesn't mean all religions/ideologies are equal, and cause equal harm in present time. To claim otherwise is being delusional.

The problem here is you've taken everything in isolation. Where is the discussion about where the massacres took place? Most will be in active warzones for example, predominantly Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria - three of which we had a direct hand in destabilizing, the fourth (Syria) is currently a proxy war between about 10 different players.

Where did I say Islam is the same as Jainism? I didn't. I said better or worse the reality it's interpretations and what people do with it that is the problem, compounded and influenced by what is going on around them.

Most non Muslims in Muslim countries outside of warzones have no issues. Many have significantly more freedom to do as they please than the Muslims in the same countries. For example many Muslim countries specifically allow non Muslims to drink alcohol, whereas Muslims themselves are banned. There's also significant relaxation in upholding of various laws for non Muslims in a variety of counties as well. Non Muslim westerners specifically henerally have a lot greater preferential treatment in many countries than Muslims in the UK.

If the majority weren't like us (just getting on with their lives, living peacefully in society) we would have a significantly larger problem than we actually do. There are around 4-5 million Muslims in the UK, yet problems associated with them are petty minimal by and large. The issue is political and ideological usage of the religion by a select few to further their aims, not Islam as a whole.

As for the media, you have a baying mob that demands to know the religion of someone, even if it's completely unrelated to the crime. You also have a situation where any incidents regarding a muslim are reported when if it involved a non Muslim it wouldn't get any screen space - this is especially prevelant in more right leaning papers like breitbart and the Mail.

That's not to say that the media shouldn't report something that has been done where it is relevant that they are Muslim, but scouring reports for a Muslim or Arabic sounding name is pretty damn common on this forum alone and is of no benefit to anyone.

 

[dowie]

Where did I say Islam is the same as Jainism? I didn't.

Point is though that you brought up your usual deflation of 'what about other religions' in a thread specifically about one.

 

[Amp34]

Point is though that you brought up your usual deflation of 'what about other religions' in a thread specifically about one.

I'm going to buy a graphics card, I'm thinking of the Nvidia xyz, how does it compare?

Well the amd abc has ....

Stop deflecting!!!!

That's essentially what you're saying right here.

As I keep asking, why not actually debate the points brought, rather than constantly just arguing deflection? Do you really believe we should debate things in a vaccum?

Or perhaps we can just go back to actually debating what the thread is about rather than what you consider deflection.

 

[dowie]

I'm going to buy a graphics card, I'm thinking of the Nvidia xyz, how does it compare?

Well the amd abc has ....

Stop deflecting!!!!

That is a poor analogy - the thread doesn't ask how does Islam compare but rather whether Islam is compatible with atheism. No I'm not suggesting that we debate things in a vacuum but I am suggesting that you've got a habit of continually deflecting to criticise other religions wherever some criticism of Islam is brought up.

 

[hornetstinger]

What part of 'all religions' did you miss?

Polytheist religions are tolerent of others- because their own has different gods, and different religions of each god.

 

[Participant]

Islam isn't apparently compatible with freedom of thought and critical thinking.

 

[Luckystrike123]

I am an atheist and I have Muslim friends. They do not care that I am an atheist and my general experience of Muslims is that they are kind, caring, moral and very descent people.

I was born in a Muslim majority country (UAE) and my parents experience of living there for several years is exactly the same as mine.

So yes, Muslims can easily live with other religions. It's just the nutters who cannot.

 

[dowie]

I was born in a Muslim majority country (UAE) and my parents experience of living there for several years is exactly the same as mine.

Presumably you don't have muslim parents since it would be against UAE law for you to become an atheist if that were the case and perhaps you wouldn't draw the same conclusion. I don't doubt that you had some nice muslim friends, they as individuals might not care that you're an atheist but if you were born a muslim then their country does and that is as a result of Islam - ergo there is an incompatibility in that context.

 

[hornetstinger]

I am an atheist and I have Muslim friends. They do not care that I am an atheist and my general experience of Muslims is that they are kind, caring, moral and very descent people.

I was born in a Muslim majority country (UAE) and my parents experience of living there for several years is exactly the same as mine.

So yes, Muslims can easily live with other religions. It's just the nutters who cannot.

What would have happened if you set up a atheist group, chat show, radio show in UAE, gave out leaflets?

 

[B&W]

From my understanding if you are not a Muslim, you are a lesser person.

To have no faith at all blows their tiny minds. I've seen it and talked to them in person.

I've literally been laughed at, told my life is without purpose, all this by 18 year old girls... Lol.

On the other hand I've also been told the same by African Christians.

No religeon is compatible with another, or lack of. No matter what they say.

Tiny minds, right... Says the guy speaking to a few Muslims and then makes a generalisation about Billions...

 

[Efour]

Tiny minds, right... Says the guy speaking to a few Muslims and then makes a generalisation about Billions...

So wrong it hurts. But 10 out of 10 for looking for it.

How do you even come to that conclusion?
Do you just fill in the gaps with whatever words you actually want to read?

 

[sports_brah]

That is a poor analogy - the thread doesn't ask how does Islam compare but rather whether Islam is compatible with atheism. No I'm not suggesting that we debate things in a vacuum but I am suggesting that you've got a habit of continually deflecting to criticise other religions wherever some criticism of Islam is brought up.

It's easy to know you were talking about amp34. Same deflection every time.

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

The problem isn't the Muslims themselves, but rather the censorship police that allow/dont stop extremists from doing what they do based upon fear of offence..

Prime example, i was banned from the Ramadan thread for saying I was having a full English breakfast tomorrow, pandering to feelings does not accomplish anything.

I mentioned to someone who 'wanted to better understand the muslim religion' that we were on a path to atheism in this country and that in my mind is a good thing. Most of us don't even understand our own religion, why would be want to understand another one?

Of course I now don't have posting privileges there and my post has been removed.

 

[darkgen]

What would have happened if you set up a atheist group, chat show, radio show in UAE, gave out leaflets?

I think this sentiment is what riles most people irrespective of the referenced faith. Ironically is the enlightenment of embedded secularism which makes this country a poor benchmark when trying to compare it, in both a sense of fairness and tolerance with others.

 

[DeanT77]

I mentioned to someone who 'wanted to better understand the muslim religion' that we were on a path to atheism in this country and that in my mind is a good thing. Most of us don't even understand our own religion, why would be want to understand another one?

Of course I now don't have posting privileges there and my post has been removed.

How many threads go vastly off tangent in GD.... a hell of a lot, with loads of trolling - venture into the GPU section to witness mass conflict.

Feels like the Ramadan thread is being policed by SJWs

 

[Tone1979]

oh WOW!

Some guys here need to read a few books and come back with educated replies... !!!