Is it against the law for Ambulances to use greenways/hardshoulder?

[Richie]

And there is the definitive reply.
I know we have a Paramedic on here so it would be interesting to hear his response (which I'm positive will be the same as yours)

Well as VS is also a response trained driver for the emergency services, then maybe not.

I have counted numerous times on the Eastbound carriageway of the M8 between Tradeston and the Kingston Bridge that I have been passed by police cars hurtling down the hard shoulder without incident....

Whether or not the individual driver of said response vehicle uses the lane is another matter but its certainly not illegal. Being justifiable may be a different matter, much like going the wrong way around a roundabout which can actually be safer at times.

 

[Richie]

Pretty sure Rypt is right about it being illegal for drivers to enter a bus lane, even if it's to let an emergency vehicle past.

Not if its a police car. This also includes going through red lights if a police car needs to get through as you are following the direction of a constable in uniform and its actually illegal not to (section thirty-something of the RTA)


Edit: Section 35 RTA is what I am referring to...

 

[Draeger]

As a driver for the Fire Service, I would not use any clear lane on the left as drivers don't always check their mirrors before moving and you would run a huge risk of proceeding down the lane at speed with the real danger of someone pulling out on you.

^^This.

I've driven down the hard shoulder on various motorways on many an occasion but that's usually on the way to an RTC on the same stretch of motorway further up ahead and the traffic has tailed right back and ground to a halt in both lanes.

And as another ERDT Fire Service driver, here's another little tip for you folks. Be very careful when a fire appliance approaches from the rear and passes you. Don't get caught up looking at it as it goes by, pulling out again after you have given way, without checking your mirrors to make sure it is safe to do so. Reason being is unlike Ambulances, a lot of fire appliances work in pairs as it were. We have PDA figures ( pre-determined attendances ) which will send more than one appliance to certain firecalls. Or an appliance and a special appliance such as a heavy rescue unit or an aerial ladder platform.

We see if regularly, Joe Bloggs hears a fire engine, clocks it in his mirrors and slows down, moving over to let it past. He stares at it as it makes its way through the traffic and he then pulls out again without looking in his mirrors. Only to get a blast from a bullhorn as another fire engine appears behind him. You can with experience, predict almost every single time this is about to happen, by observing drivers and their actions on the road.

Even worse are the ones who see the car in front indicate and pull over in order to let us through but they themselves then overtake the guy who has seen us already!!. But that's another road I won't travel down in this thread as it's not exactly the topic.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Even worse are the ones who see the car in front indicate and pull over in order to let us through but they themselves then overtake the guy who has seen us already!!.

Kill them with fire - that'll learn em.

 

[Richie]

^^This.

I've driven down the hard shoulder on various motorways on many an occasion but that's usually on the way to an RTC on the same stretch of motorway further up ahead and the traffic has tailed right back and ground to a halt in both lanes.

And as another ERDT Fire Service driver, here's another little tip for you folks. Be very careful when a fire appliance approaches from the rear and passes you. Don't get caught up looking at it as it goes by, pulling out again after you have given way, without checking your mirrors to make sure it is safe to do so. Reason being is unlike Ambulances, a lot of fire appliances work in pairs as it were. We have PDA figures ( pre-determined attendances ) which will send more than one appliance to certain firecalls. Or an appliance and a special appliance such as a heavy rescue unit or an aerial ladder platform.

We see if regularly, Joe Bloggs hears a fire engine, clocks it in his mirrors and slows down, moving over to let it past. He stares at it as it makes its way through the traffic and he then pulls out again without looking in his mirrors. Only to get a blast from a bullhorn as another fire engine appears behind him. You can with experience, predict almost every single time this is about to happen, by observing drivers and their actions on the road.

Even worse are the ones who see the car in front indicate and pull over in order to let us through but they themselves then overtake the guy who has seen us already!!. But that's another road I won't travel down in this thread as it's not exactly the topic.

As a driver for the Fire Service, I would not use any clear lane on the left as drivers don't always check their mirrors before moving and you would run a huge risk of proceeding down the lane at speed with the real danger of someone pulling out on you.

How have you found the new mutli-tone type sirens that the appliances have been fitted with in helping people figure out what direction you are coming from etc? Has it helped get you through traffic better?

 

[Draeger]

How have you found the new mutli-tone type sirens that the appliances have been fitted with in helping people figure out what direction you are coming from etc? Has it helped get you through traffic better?

They have advantages and disadvantages.

Firstly, they allow us to vary the tone type for differing situations. Drivers are taught during an ERDT ( Emergency Response Driver Training ) course to use the "wail" type for open road type driving. Upon approach to a roundabout, set of traffic lights, junction etc, switching to the "yelp" type siren is prescribed. In fact when encountering any high volume of traffic especially in an urban/city situation, the "yelp" type is used. The driver has the ability to change between the tones by pressing the standard horn button on the steering wheel. The OIC can also change the tone manually via a control on the dash. But its more effective for the driver to decide when to change tones as only he knows what manouver he is considering next and thus is best placed to decide what audible warning system will be most effective to carry out that manouver.

However, I've noticed that using the above siren types are effective but in some situations when we also use the old "two-tones" ( nee-naws for want of a better description ) in conjunction with the wail and yelp, that really shifts the traffic and pricks up ears. I think Eddie will agree with that.

Some of our appliances are fitted with a "white noise" directional system that was trialled a good few years ago. It certainly helped drivers locate the direction an appliance was approaching for but the nature of the noise ( it sounded nothing like a wail or a yelp, hard to describe ) made drivers think "Well, I know where it's coming from but I haven't a clue what it is!!".

We also have the good auld bullhorn which is quite effective at catching the attention of an inattentive driver. They definitely wake folk up.

That said, my own fire and rescue service have promulgated guidance on excessive use of the bullhorn. Some junior officers / OIC's of appliances were using them far too often and for too long at a time which actually lessened the effectiveness of the horn to an extent.

 

[chipperhead]

Our Brigade phased out the OIC having any control of the audible warning several years ago, which I think makes sense. In my opinion the driver should have sole control.

 

[Richie]

It was the white noise siren I was referring to. It was designed to make it easier for people to determine where the appliance was coming from in the middle of towns/cities etc as it was harder with the standard sirens when it bounced off walls.

 

[rypt]

Not if its a police car. This also includes going through red lights if a police car needs to get through as you are following the direction of a constable in uniform and its actually illegal not to (section thirty-something of the RTA)


Edit: Section 35 RTA is what I am referring to...

Afaik that is failure to do as directed by a police officer, an police car with simply lights on is NOT directing you. A direction from the officer is verbal or physical and has to be clear as to what he wants you to do and also visible to you (so the argument of seeing a direction via rear view mirror does not apply)