Is my PhD supervisor taking the ****?

[OpenToSuggestions]

Hey all.
Firstly, I do a PhD. I am around 6 months into it.

A few months ago I was asked if I want do some paid work (2 hours per week for a semester) with assisting with labs for first year undergraduates. PhD students are permitted in their contracts to work up to 6 hours per week. No issues here.
My supervisor told me no. He then tells me this is because I need to make the most of my time and not spend it on things that are not useful to my PhD.
All the above so far seems to make sense.

Now here comes the issue:
My supervisor has a lot of work to do and as such gives some of the boring/tedius tasks to his researchers to do. These are: Buying IT equipment for the office, verifying exam marks have been copied over OK etc.

I get given these tasks. I am not an employee, but have a 3 year contract to do my PhD in (most PhDs take 3-4 years to complete). I find my PhD very hard, both in sitting at a desk (I do get my own desk in the office) reading PDF academic papers all day and in that 90% of my friends have now left this University. I do worry a great deal about how my PhD is going and to be honest dropping out is certainly a possibility.

I have no issues spending 10 mins here and there filling in IT purchase forms, but for a few months I have been 'the IT purchaser' and have found myself losing half a day a week on average to searching the internet for IT purchases.

Am I being unreasonable to tell my supervisor I am here for my PhD and I will not act as his admin bitch?

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

no, phd has to come first to doing IT buying

On Friday he has been on to me about buying a webcam for the meeting room and a coffee maker. Everyone in the office sticks their oar in by giving ideas yet has no intention of helping (just like every other office in the world to be honest!). I really feel like telling him that I refuse to spend time doing admin tasks.

My supervisor expects me to work 9-5 in the office and to book holidays just like an employee does. I haven't issues with this but the noise in the office is stupid as he has conversations with people 10m away.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

You do as your supervisor tells you to do... basically.

Although, you can talk to him/her and say you're not happy with they way things are. On a side note, your supervisor shouldn't stop you from doing demonstrating. it is a good skill to have and makes you go back and think about the basics AND it is great to see if you want to have a dabble in lecturing one day.

I have a project supervisor. I am not an employee. I get a fixed amount of money to do my PhD (which does not come from him) and losing 10% of my time means I will struggle even more to finish my PhD in the 750 days that I am required to.
I am happy to do tutorials in my subject for free though as they would be <4 hours per 12 months.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Surely there's an IT/procurement department that would deal with this?

Yes there is. They are not brilliant, but we do have a set of IT Technicians in the department.

I'd tell him that you're not his administrator, and whilst you're happy to assit him in his work you think it's only appropriate that you do things relating directly to your field and your PhD.

This is what I was thinking of telling him.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Not when it comes to being a dogsbody. PhD comes first, end of.

It might be worth taking this up with the head of department before it gets out of hand because if you get into the habit of picking up your supervisor's menial tasks now, you'll end up doing it all the time and later on in your PhD you won't be able to afford to waste time like this.

I have spoken to my final year project sueprvisor as he is brilliant.
I have not spoken to my PhD supervisor as he is not exactly a people person. I will speak to him first though as there is no need to go upsetting anybody .

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

You're not necessarily being unreasonable, but different labs work in different ways. Here, we have a lab tech who does ALL of the ordering. Straight across the corridor they all do their own ordering.

I think with all of these things, a quick discussion with your lab head is the best thing. This stops things growing out of proportion and prevents you and him getting antagonised.

I will certainly speak with him face to face. I won't go behind anyone's back as he is my sueprvisor and he is a good supervisor, but like most academics they will fob off their work to their researchers, but I am not a researcher (employee) i.e. I do not work for him.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

He only expects 9-5 from you? That's less than any PhD/DPhil students than I know.

Buy some closed back/ noise cancelling headphones.

You thought you had time to do some teaching, yet complain about doing a similar amount of work on purchasing?

It sounds to me that you aren't cut out to do a PhD.

The teaching would have been paid for the one he refused to let me do. The one for him would be unpaid.
The purchasing takes more time and is not paid.

He expects me in the office 9-5 but it is full of distractions as it is mainly post-doc researchers in there. I will work evenings once or twice a week, plus I am a first year PhD and I realise the workload increases massively very soon. People who are further than me into a PhD (some have recently finished) tell me that the first year can be kept mostly 9-5 hours.

Thanks for the replies so far guys . It would be interesting to know what each of you do for a living as I am getting plenty of different opinions.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

boo-hoo

I was required to be in the office 9am-6pm monday-friday. Actual hours were 7/8am-10-11pm monday-friday with 8am-6pm saturday & sunday. The last 18 months or so I barely had a single day off work, no vacation, no weekend, no time for a sick day.

Working into the small hours was a regular occurrence. 16 hour work days common place.

You ARE a slave to your prof. That is how it works. That is what it means to do a PhD. We have all been there before. A PHD is one of the hardest things you can do in life, it is not a 9-5 job.

I know full well that a PhD requires a lot of time and effort but the hours that you put in sound completely over the top!

Working long hours for your PhD and working extra hours peeing around with stuff that has nothing to do with my PhD are two very different things. I do not mind putting in extra time for MY work.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

The Prof got the funding for the project and gave you a position in the lab and accepted to supervise you. You are in turn expected to do work for him. Evenings and weekends are when you can catch up on research.

A PHD is so much more than simply doing the research and reporting it.

Sounds like you were a free secretery to your supervisor!
A PhD is to do some unique research, not to do the extra work your supervisor cannot be bothered to do.
I am graduate school funded, my supervisor does not pay me anything. My department doesn't even pay me anything.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Probably only about 40% of my hours were on anything related to my thesis.

If less than half of your time was spent on your thesis then you were doing something seriously wrong!

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

35-40 hours a week into the thesis, 35-40 hours of other work, over 4.5 years that is still a lot of research time.

If you did 35-40 hours a week for free then if I ever start up a company I want you working for me as you do 2 jobs for the pay of 1.

Seriously you sound like you did a PhD with an ex-SAS supervisor .

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

So you are worried about not getting it done in the time allowed, but you can spare some time for teaching because you get paid for that?
It is the point that if I choose to work extra that is my choice, not to be a free admin bitch.

You are worried about not finishing in time already, to the point where one afternoon a week will be make or break, but you only do 9-5.
Half a day is 10% of my time. Quite a lot really.

You think that the workload is going to increase massively, yet you aren't working very hard now to lessen it? And you already seem to have a problem with doing a 9-5?
My problem is not with the 9-5.

Do you realise that if you did 9-6 (which as you have gathered from this thread, isn't a lot by PhD standards) then that would make up for the one afternoon a week?
If I stay later for my work then fine. Not for free to buy a coffee machine.

How is an office full of distractions when you're looking at your monitor and have headphones on? Are post docs talking to you to distract you from work? They're like no post docs I have ever met if they are.
I find music a distraction. When working I want to work in a quiet environment as I am reading papers most of the day.

People tell you that a first year can get away with 9-5, so what? Do you think that your PhD is just a continuation of your undergrad and it's a party? You might be a first year graduate but you certainly aren't a "fresher" this isn't party time.
I never go out partying.

If you object to doing the purchasing so much, have you actually raised this with your supervisor?
I will do. I just wanted to see if what I was thinking was OK first.

What is your PhD on anyway? And you're at Keele I take it?
Loughborough (Stoke way is home). It is on factory design.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Agreed 100%. In many universities in many countries no one cares at all about the final thesis. I have known plenty of people that printed off their papers from the journal website, put a short introductory chapter on the front and literally stapled the lot together. (I didn't do this BTW).

The research and documentation is really a small part of the PhD. Really, a PhD is to put you on the path to being a Professor.

All of the useful things I have learned were completely outside the realm of my PhD. Doing scientific research is relatively easy, you learn that at a under undergrad project. Tasks like project organization, time management, rapidly learning new skills/programing languages, teaching, assisting students, writing funding proposals, writing patents, selling your project to venture capitalists or the head of an EU funding body, reviewing articles, managing project funds, general people skills, etc, etc.

That stuff sounds good to do for both yourself and your CV.
Spending 3 hours finding a coffee machine is a waste of my time.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

How many coffee machines will you be ordering over the 3 years? But yer its a stupid task. Hopefully this kind of thing is a one off. Just make sure you are getting access to plently of useful tasks as well.

It was an example of my wasted time last week. Of course I won't be ordering coffee machines on a weekly basis.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

4 hours is only ten percent of your time because you're doing so few hours.

For all your supervisor knows, you don't mind doing a little to help the lab run smoothly, someone has to do it after all. How many of the other students and the post docs have spent time helping you with problems? Not all of your time as a PhD student is for you to do your research, you are part of a research group to which you have to contribute, do you complain when you have to take a journal club? Your supervisor spends some time giving you guidance doesn't he? Some of your time seems fair in return, and before you even go there, his time is worth more than yours.

You're just getting all whiney on the Internet before he even knows there's a problem.

And also, if you're just reading papers then do it at home or in a library rather than in your office where there seems to be a party going on?

Of course his time is 'more worthy' than mine. He is the Prof and I am the student. There is one other PhD and she gets nothing extra to do. The supervisor insists on PhDs being in the office 9-5 hours.
The purpose of this thread is not for an internet whine, it is because I know there are many people who are either on a PhD or have done one and know far better than I do what the best course of action is.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Anyone who isn't completely socially retarded will know that the best course of action when you haves problem with your boss is to speak to your boss. People's experience of PhD supervisors is irrelevant.

It would be daft speaking to him without speaking to people who may have been in the same situation or know people who have been.

I will speak to my supervisor, but as his people skills are quite lacking I need to decide how to go about it.

If you are going to continue to add posts that in no way help, please don't just don't bother.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Where on earth are you doing your PhD? 50% drop-out rate by 1-2 years?! That's going to be an awfully big black mark on the university and the professors running these projects.

What happens to the research that PhD student was carrying out? Surely driving your students into the ground to the point of them dropping out isn't entirely productive, especially if the majority of their time is taken up doing non-research activities...

5-7years, 70+ hours a week...sounds like an awful way to conduct research.

I agree. Where I am the dropout rate is far lower - I would guess <10%. Every single PhD student at my Unviersity is bright enough to do a PhD as they require 1st class BEng or a strong 2.1 MEng (strong meaning not scraping the 2.1).

I really do find this 70 hours a week thing pure madness. Say your PhD took 5 years then by the time you have finished it I bet you aged 10 years.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

here is a depressing table:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/07/doctoral

Cumulative 10-Year Completion Rates for Students Who Entered Ph.D. Programs 1992-3 through 1994-5

Year in Program 	% Who Earned Doctorate
3 	                                 4.5%
4	                               10.5%
5 	                       	       22.5%
6 	                       	       36.1%
7 	                       	       45.5%
8 		                       50.9%
9 	                               54.6%
10 		                       56.6%

That just doesn't seem right. If so few people are finishing their PhD then the University/Supervisor is doing something seriously wrong.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

450-500 students begin doctoral work each fall.
Doctoral students generally take 5-8 years from entry to graduate.
A few graduate sooner, a few in 9-10 years.
About 60% of entering doctoral students receive PhD's within 8 years of entering.
30-40% leave UCB without a degree.

5-8 years for a PhD?! It just doesn't take that long. The UK norm for a full time PhD is 3-4 years. I am not suprised it took longer if you did 35 hours working on top of 35 hours PhD.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

My supervisor is insistant on 3 years. I am a warden (3 of us plus 1 'main' warden for 300 students) so I get a free flat and food. I am in no rush to break my neck and do it in 3 years but I certainly don't want it to take forever!