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Is Russia's rash move into the Crimea a sign that...

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Golf1.6, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,283

    Interestingly, they already have many - Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Turkey, USA...

    President Putin himself in one of the latest TV answers said and wished to the Ukrainian people all the best and to do whatever they feel right.
     
  2. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,219

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    East Ukraine was an area were ethnic Russians were the majority, and the area with the most nationalistic idea to join Russia since 1989.

    What tipped them to civil war and autonomy was the current far right president WE the West put in charge of the country. And his first act was to ban the Russian language from official use, remove the Russian natuonality of all the "Ukrainians" had it, demanding from Russia to shutdown the Crimean base immediately.

    His second act was to start demolishing all the monuments commemorating the great patriotic war (WW2). Soon his party started celebrating Nazi collaborators with torchlight marches.

    I do wonder how you would feel as a Russian national in Crimea and East Ukraine?

    What would have happen if tomorrow the London government removed the Scottish nationality claiming everyone is English? What would have happened in North Ireland if doing the same?

    Also what's the situation in Ukraine do you know? People are starving, energy poverty is huge from non existant. Because the current government prefers to buy American gas (from fracking) at dozen times higher prices than Russia used to sell it to Ukraine or sells to the rest of Europe. Because they do not want to deal with Russia. Similarly that could happen to UK if stopped importing Russian gas and oil.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  3. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,219

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    And Turkey (& Greece) are members of NATO since the 50s mind you.
     
  4. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,283

    I know. Did you know that the distance between the Russian most Eastern island and US most western island is only 2.5 miles (4 km)?!
     
  5. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,219

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    Yep, the strait at Alaska.
     
  6. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,550

    But it isn't a civil war, Russia sends in soldiers. We know they're there, because the dumb idiots took selfies and uploaded them to social media.

    Also the Russian government trying to take the moral high ground on "nazi collaborators" is a bit rich...
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  7. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,283

    Well, the soldiers themselves decide to go there...
     
  8. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,219

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    Russian solders coming from East Ukraine went to fight there and they were proud for it. If Russia had sent the army the conflict could have ended in hours not months.

    Similarly to Britons went and fought for Isis..... Are they categorised as British solders? Of course not.

    Sure Russia probably sent some special forces to give a hand with information, similarly to Britain and US sending troops to Syria, against the government forces, contrary to been twice voted down (UK Parliament) not to send troops in the country but stick to Iraqi targets bombing only....

    As you see I can draw parallelisms all day. You need to start seeing the whole picture gathering your information from all sides.
     
  9. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,550

    With tanks and jet fighters...

    Oh yea and anti-air weapons ofc :p
     
  10. Colonel_Klinck

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 521

    Location: London, UK

    Pfft air defence systems used to shoot down an airliner. Personally I have a couple of those in the shed.

    Amazing people are trying to claim Putin doesn't have his filthy murdering hands all over this. He was never going to roll an army in, for one it would force the EU/NATO to either make a stance or at least raise the tensions to something we haven't seen since height of the Cold War and push sanctions, which I think actually did hit harder in the end than he imaged they would. Also he doesn't need to go in that way. Why be so overt when he can achieve the same being covert, even though we all know he's behind it. He is constantly waging an information war against Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Georgia. He is behind interference in EU and US politics/elections. He's an incredibly dangerous man who too many of our politicians have sadly underestimated or have been bought off by Russian Oligarch money.
     
  11. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,283

    Nope, the US has always protected the rights of the minorities and smaller ethnic groups. Russia has all the right to protect the ethnic Russians who are in danger of genocide by the foreign governments.

    There is a genocide in many Eastern European countries, including the poorest member states of the EU.
     
  12. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,277

    Location: Midlands

    Russia are the puppet-masters for many areas of the modern world, people simply just don't realise it - that is how amazingly contrived and cunning they have been.
     
  13. Colonel_Klinck

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 521

    Location: London, UK


    It is amazing. While we all argue amongst ourselves he slowly increases his influence and keeps working to divide the West. Its working like a charm as well.
     
  14. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,283

    I have always wondered what kind of interest one would have to fight with the world's largest materials and resources supplier. Instead of friendly relations leading to cheap prices, you must fight and forbid the normal supply of goods.
    It's silly. The US can buy cheap natural gas from Russia, instead of delivering expensive via tankers to the countries bordering Russia.
     
  15. Colonel_Klinck

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 521

    Location: London, UK

    Well there is the whole totally corrupt State thing going on. People and companies how lost 100s of $millions invested in Russia when they are basically robbed and if they kick up a stink they can find themselves threatened, imprisoned or even killed. Sergei Magnitsky says hello, well he would if he wasn't murdered by the State.

    Edit: sorry tortured and murdered by the State I should say.
     
  16. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,283

    Your goal is to receive materials cheaply. If you receive materials cheaply, why would you interfere with the Russian State problems which are inside for themselves?
    I can understand your fear that your investment can be nationalised and lost but I wasn't talking About that. Also, corruption is present in many places around the world. It's all humans problem.
     
  17. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,550

    The west doesn't invest in Russia because it's way corrupt to and risky. Loads of business had their assets stolen so they pulled out. Which is why Russia has nothing to reply with when sanctions are placed on them. It's also why the rich Russians keep their money in Europe...
     
  18. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,283

    Wonder why the West likes communist China...
     
  19. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,550

    Because China doesn't rob from and intimidate foreign businesses. Yes they are dodgy, but they still follow their own laws at least.
     
  20. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,283

    Nope, the Chinese companies copy western technologies via inverse engineering and then sell them at much lower prices. The same that was done before 1989 in the Eastern bloc, as well.

    If you don't like investing in Russia, then don't. Just buy their labour and goods from their companies.