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Is 'Social Justice' a Cultural Revolution Reboot?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Herojuana, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 12,152

    Luckily it hasn't got quite that bad over here, yet.

    There are an awful lot of fragile people around now though.
     
  2. V F

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 13, 2003

    Posts: 15,459

    Location: UK

    Nearly all the problems is manufactured from the mainstream news which feeds social media.
     
  3. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,627

    Even this thread was manufactured for the same reason, it’s ******* sad and I wish people would see it for what it was.
     
  4. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 2,390

    trying to make the delusional alt-right mainstream.
     
  5. V F

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 13, 2003

    Posts: 15,459

    Location: UK

    You've obviously forgotten what was on the wall beside the newsagent checkouts back in the 90s/00s and still to this day. The gossip magazines. Nothing has changed except in electronic format.
     
  6. nkata

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,919

    Location: Cheshire / Staffordshire

    Except it has because at some point you have to have content that is saleable in a magazine. Some interest to a wider group of people and that has had some fact checking done even cursory.
    Now all sorts of rubbish can and is put out there, picked up and expounded on, further distributed as gospel facts and the half or more of the population gullible and ill educated as they are can swallow it wholesale. Alt right or extreme left, religious fundamentalist or atheist, everything is menued for your delectation.
     
  7. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,261

    Location: Lancashire

    Please keep the discussion to the topic at hand. Not a meta discussion about what constitutes a discussion because something doesn't fit into your world view / echo chamber perception. Thank you
     
  8. Crpwned

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 6, 2013

    Posts: 602

    There is no discussion, you posted a few YouTube videos with no opinion of your own and then followed it up with some 4chan style picture that has absolutely no worth.

    Try formulating an opinion, back it up with some data and citations and then try and have a discussion with someone on the various points you may (or most probably may not) raise.
     
  9. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,261

    Location: Lancashire

    Seems like you're disagreeing with the premise of the thread in a roundabout way. I'm assuming you watched each of the videos. Care to elaborate on how or why you disagree?
     
  10. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,068

    Jonathan Haidt's perspective is that their is a fragility and vindictiveness in contemporary cultural with regard to politics and that this leads to a total lack of diversity and debate.

    His main interest is in social cohesion.

    Difficult to ascertain what you're perspective is.

    The question would be are you suggesting any solutions or is does this thread simply illustrate the issue i.e. a thin skinned culture with a severely low tolerance in regard to diversity of belief.

    Group identity is formed polemically (I define myself by what I hate).

    The rhetoric of this type of entity will target an out-group, left, right, Mexicans, garden gnomes, whatever.

    Target does not matter so much as long as they are presented as the source of all error and represent all we despise.

    The stick, stick and more stick of contemporary political polemic, bubble wrapped and fired up on righteous anger.
     
  11. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,748

    I personally don’t disagree with the Year One, Cultural Revolution metaphors. The mad social liberal trend of the offendesphere seems to share trait with Mao or the Khmer Rouge in that destroying the past to create their new Utopia is very part of the movement. The arrogance is impressive in its scope as much as it repulsive in its aims.
     
  12. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,294

    Another rubbish "I saw stuff on Youtube" thread... And you're basically parroting some of the ideas in these videos without adding anything else to the discussion. Then again, you're not here to discuss, you're here to spread the "Word", aren't you?

    The idea of comparing progressivism with Mao's Cultural Revolution is insane and I'm not using the word as a figure as speech, I'm saying its proponents are literally off their meds. A "Case Study" about an irrelevant small conflict in an irrelevant college says bugger all about society as a whole so you can relax, you won't find the "worst parts of history" there. And you won't get massacred in the millions by an army of hipsters with majors in performing arts, ok? You have nothing to fear from "tyrannical" college professors who preach progressivism, just ignore them and move on with your life.

    And at the end of the day, society today is complex and every crucial task, from running satellites to writing software is done by highly motivated, highly skilled and often highly intelligent individuals. The kind that, in example, are capable to present a solid, concise point of view without requiring Youtube links. And these people, whether you like it or not, tend to have progressive views, a fact that will not change any time soon. Instead of creating yet another whining thread on this forum (which, by the way, has a whining thread about PC, progressivism, "the left" etc. , every other day), why don't you do something about it? Tell me, Herojuana, are you actually doing anything to counteract this dangerous "Social Justice" ideology? Or are you just sitting there, watching Youtube, a bit of Reddit perhaps? 4chan here and there? 8chan (but only for the lulz!)? At least the SJW's are doing something which, no matter if you agree with it or not, is better than nothing, is it not?
     
  13. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,068

    The Mao's cultural revolution comparison is unfortunate. Its a standard rhetorical trope, which can work.

    Implying it has some historical and actual basis is somewhat end of the peer. Its straying into 'a read a book about Hitler and was eerily reminded of.... (insert you're bias); which is also a highly popular device deployed by those who like to run with the fireside tales of terror theme, when it comes to political fairy tales.

    Here is a very different example. Uses the same standard device, sticks to fiction, maintains a sense of humor, works far better I think.

    Rolling Stone article. Well worth a read

    Why We Are living in the Age of Fear
     
  14. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,261

    Location: Lancashire

    Well the kind of extreme social justice mentioned in these examples might not be what you consider progressivism, but there's possibly a gradient of thinking where one might lead to another. If you're on the far left and you are around people like this then there's a duty to call out hypocrisy and extremism just like people on the right should.

    In the Evergreen University in Washington example, this is the type of thing that crystallises in a very left wing echo chamber, and it looks strikingly similar to the cultural revolution. You might scoff that this won't happen elsewhere, but let's not leave that to chance. I think it's useful to share these ideas (not sure why the denigration toward sharing information in video format..).

    Part of what can prevent these things getting out of hand wholesale is sharing information with people so that they can be on the look out for this and we can nip it in the bud. This strain of the left will feed the extreme right, as their #1 enemy is 'white people'. I don't think we want this kind of balkanization of our societies, or to live under an authoritarian government, whether it be on the left or the right.
     
  15. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,294

    Can you give me 2-3 examples of influential people who are far left? And what exactly are these far left views?

    Sharing propaganda, which is exactly what you are doing, won't prevent anything from "getting out of hand", quite the contrary. Its main purpose is to energize and validate the views of those who already share your views and, at the same time, create hostility from those who don't.

    Furthermore, why does the "far left" hate "white people", can you succinctly explain that? Have you even been in or read anything about the Balkans? If you had looked into it, you would have know that what you call the "far left" is pretty much nonexistent in the Balkans, an area dominated by nationalist/conservative governments, often supported by far-right elements. Or you would consider that the NZ terrorist did a tour of the Balkans prior to his executing dozens of old men and children. This, by the way, is what explains the denigration: your lazy arguments and your inane comparisons.
     
  16. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,261

    Location: Lancashire

    Propaganda?! All the folks involved in the videos are liberals. Or no wait, they are actually far right propagandists working for the Nazis? Listen to yourself
     
  17. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,503

    Well excuse me for posting YouTube videos but i've just seen the second part



    WARNING! PERSONAL OPINION COMING!

    The story of this documentary is highly disturbing, i really hope Zethor has actually watched both videos before spewing the nonsense above, because it shows just how out of control this sort of thing gets. One of the most left-leaning liberal colleges in the world couldn't escape this sort of garbage then what hope does anyone else have?

    The point where Bret Weinstein was accused of racism, then told not only he can't defend himself, but asking for evidence itself is racism was just jaw dropping. I had to laugh right at the end when the college President himself who kick-started this whole thing was being targeted!

    Other choice quotes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  18. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,294

    Your videos are irrelevant, they fit within a well-known scenario "Durr look at what these librul college kids are doing durr.. something, something WHITE MALE GENOCIDE" etc. It's an old, boring trope which you only use because you are incapable of presenting a coherent point of view without it being instantly torn apart or without exposing some of the views you would prefer to keep to yourself.

    Your comparison between what is happening in some college in the US and the Cultural Revolution is insane. Your parallel between progressivism and the political movements in the Balkans is inane, ignorant, lazy. This is not even up for debate, that ended when you decided to present your views in such a manner. I asked you to name influential people from the "far left", what the "far left" views are and why the "far left" hates "whites"? I'm not interested in Youtube videos, you can discuss those in their comment section, I'm interested in YOUR personal views so please.. do share them like I do mine.
     
  19. Herojuana

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2007

    Posts: 1,261

    Location: Lancashire

    I think you just need to try and have a good faith discussion with people you're talking to. If you're not open to even considering the information presented, then this isn't really going to go anywhere is it?

    If you haven't bothered spending time to watch the video, then I won't be jumping through your hoops or adhering to your strange code of conduct for discussing things on an online forum. You seem to be coming from a place of bad-faith, so let's save ourselves some time shall we?
     
  20. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,068

    Are you familiar with the maker of the video? His main claim to fame is his documentation of the Sokal hoax.

    Subject is well into the murky world of academic feuding. Here is the film maker describing some of his methods in making a vid go viral, his background is in digital marketing.

    Guardian Digilante: how a viral video of a bus passenger's rant went off like a 'nuke'

    This is a highly murky academic dispute. Its overtly political and that makes the claim to academic impartiality with the sociology somewhat difficult to maintain.

    It's too political to treat anything as fact.

    The idea that 'seeing is believing' here is naive in the extreme.

    This forms part of a wider argument where academics are fighting like stoats in a bag and fighting dirty.

    Its gone so far as to enter the world of fake news and manufactured evidence with the Sokal hoax.

    Reasoned debate and argument this ain't its an academic fist fight.