Is this server good enough?

[lumencreative]

We've currently got a Dell PowerEdge T30 server with a Pentium Dual Core CPU, 4GB Ram, running Windows Server 2012 R2 Essentials. At present, the server is used as a domain controller and for file storage (including folder redirection). It is also configured to backup the dekstop PC's once a day (well at night).

We bought this server because we knew we didn't need massive specs for the above tasks and we got cashback meaning it only cost about £80, and to be fair it's done a good job up to now.

There are only 4 PC's and 2 Macs in the office (including one PC that's just used as a POS).

However, we are looking at getting some business management software (either Sage 200, or Orderwise), and either of these options will need a server, and I'm wondering if the server we have will be sufficient.

I have been looking at used servers and it seems I can get a used Dell PowerEdge R320 with a E5-2407 CPU and 16-32GB Ram for around £300.

So...firstly, am I right that the server we currently have will be insufficient for running business management software like Sage 200 at a reasonable speed?

If so, would a Dell PowerEdge R230 with an E5-2407 CPU be ok or should I look for something newer?

Thanks in advance

 

[bremen1874]

If you're getting Sage 200 or similar it'll presumably be via a re-seller and you need to agree the hardware requirements upfront with them. If you don't and you have performance issues there's a fair chance they'll blame the hardware platform.

If you're looking at spending the sort of money something like Sage 200 will cost why are you looking at saving a few quid on secondhand hardware? I'd want something with at least a manufacture's next day onsite warranty.

Edit: And given the size why are you looking at an onsite server based solution rather than a cloud offering?

 

[lumencreative]

If you're getting Sage 200 or similar it'll presumably be via a re-seller and you need to agree the hardware requirements upfront with them. If you don't and you have performance issues there's a fair chance they'll blame the hardware platform.

If you're looking at spending the sort of money something like Sage 200 will cost why are you looking at saving a few quid on secondhand hardware? I'd want something with at least a manufacture's next day onsite warranty.

We will be buying the software direct from Sage (if we do infact go with Sage 200), and will be doing their monthly subscription option, and they don't have the hardware requirements available online that I can see, but regardless, to answer your question, when we're going to spend a considerable amount on the software, we can't then afford to throw money at a brand new server as well, especially if a £300 used server will be sufficient.

 

[bremen1874]

Do you have the skills to install and configure this sort of software?

The fact that you're asking about about the hardware requirements suggests not.

What for instance are your plans for the SQL Server back-end?

What happens if your secondhand server goes down?

And again why are you looking at a on premises solution with such a small user base?

 

[lumencreative]

Do you have the skills to install and configure this sort of software?

The fact that you're asking about about the hardware requirements suggests not.

What for instance are your plans for the SQL Server back-end?

What happens if your secondhand server goes down?

And again why are you looking at a on premises solution with such a small user base?

I do appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I do have the skills to install and configure this sort of software, and one piece of software we are considering includes them coming and doing the installation. My university degree was in computing and my last job was as a network developer. I have enough skills to diagnose issues with a server if it fails and at £300 if it completely goes boom, we could easily afford a replacment, but that doesn't mean I should know the system requirements for software I've never used before.

Main reason for looking at on premise is because I don't like the idea of the software that runs my business being in the cloud, having said that, one of the softwares I'm looking at (NetSuite) is cloud based, so I am considering that also.

Anyway, we're getting off topic. I'm asking if the server specs I mentioned would be sufficient.

 

[bremen1874]

There's not enough information provided to give an answer.

For instance your server specs make no mention of the storage setup, something that'll be very important for a product that runs on SQL Server. BTW have you checked the cost of SQL Server? Unless things have changed Sage 200 is only supported on 'real' versions on SQL Server and they aren't cheap.

Also 'Sage 200' is a bit vague, it's a modular product with varying requirements.

If you have decent connectivity then a on premises solution makes very little sense (especially if you're going to run it on out of warranty hardware).

If you have reason to invest in a product like Sage 200 then it needs to be available. Your 'degree in computing' may help you diagnose a server fault but it doesn't necessarily help you obtain the spares in a timely manner.

 

[lumencreative]

Thanks again bremen1874 for much needed food for thought.

As I mentioned, Sage 200 is just one option I'm looking at. My actual preferred option is a package called Orderwise as it'll do more integrated stuff 'out of the box' than Sage will. Orderwise can run on SQL express but having said that, we have a current Microsoft ActionPack account which includes Internal Usage Rights to SQL Server 2016.

Anyway, I've now received the system requirements for Orderwise and the server mentioned in my OP is more than sufficient - just need to weigh up whether to buy a slightly lower spec new server for around £700 or this used one with bags of ram.

 

[Liquidfox]

How do you plan on running Sage 200? You'll need full SQL which is around £2.5k the last time I looked unless you can go with an MS reseller and rent it under a SPLA agreement. Be careful with Action Pack, if I remember rightly it's only licensed to be used in development scenarios. You can't use those licences to run production servers/desktops etc. Things may have changed, it's been about 6 years since I last used an Action Pack licence!

You'll need more than 4GB of RAM, as this is the minimum requirements (aka not enough - https://www.solutionsforaccounting..../Sage-200-Extra-System-Requirements-v2016.pdf) You'll also need a faster CPU too so the R230 would be a better option.

Do yourself a favour and visualise the Sage 200 server, it'll make recovery far easier should the hardware go boom.

 

[lumencreative]

How do you plan on running Sage 200? You'll need full SQL which is around £2.5k the last time I looked unless you can go with an MS reseller and rent it under a SPLA agreement. Be careful with Action Pack, if I remember rightly it's only licensed to be used in development scenarios. You can't use those licences to run production servers/desktops etc. Things may have changed, it's been about 6 years since I last used an Action Pack licence!

You'll need more than 4GB of RAM, as this is the minimum requirements (aka not enough - https://www.solutionsforaccounting..../Sage-200-Extra-System-Requirements-v2016.pdf) You'll also need a faster CPU too so the R230 would be a better option.

Do yourself a favour and visualise the Sage 200 server, it'll make recovery far easier should the hardware go boom.

Thanks Liquidfox. Actionpack includes Internal Use licenses for the purpose of running your business...see here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb...rights-benefits-why-are-they-important-for-me

It also includes some Azure credit each month so one option might be to set up a server in Azure depending on the total cost of course.

 

[Scotteh]

Isn't Internal Use licenses for development, testing and demos only? I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to use it in production (otherwise why buy 10 licenses for production when I can subscribe for what £260 per year?).

I, like some of the above, would recommend cloud solutions over a second hand server with no warranty though.

 

[DarkHorizon472]

The above advice from various posters is very important. A managed cloud solution means you don't have to worry about maintenance and dr / backup as this is provided to the agreed level by the hosting provider.

Looking at your previous posts it seems as a minimum you need to employ someone to spec and set this up for you if you are determined to host it in your office.

Please don't take this as a criticism but it will potentially save you a lot of pain in the future. It is the unknowns that cost you greatly in IT systems, as well as the difference between good value for money and cheap.

 

[lumencreative]

Isn't Internal Use licenses for development, testing and demos only? I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to use it in production (otherwise why buy 10 licenses for production when I can subscribe for what £260 per year?).

I, like some of the above, would recommend cloud solutions over a second hand server with no warranty though.

This page here explains what Microsofts Internal Use software is 'Use the latest Microsoft technologies to run your business and train your staff.' Obviously there are eligibility criteria to getting access to ActionPack, etc, so not everyone can just buy a subscription.

The above advice from various posters is very important. A managed cloud solution means you don't have to worry about maintenance and dr / backup as this is provided to the agreed level by the hosting provider.

Looking at your previous posts it seems as a minimum you need to employ someone to spec and set this up for you if you are determined to host it in your office.

Please don't take this as a criticism but it will potentially save you a lot of pain in the future. It is the unknowns that cost you greatly in IT systems, as well as the difference between good value for money and cheap.

I am taking on board what is said, trust me. If we go down the route of Sage, they offer a cloud option which might actually work out better, but if we opt for the other software we are leaning towards (Orderwise), they take their normal version and stick it on a hosted server. We would still have to pay the significant sum for the software, but then their hosting platform is an additional £1500+vat per year for 3 users but again, I'm looking at the possibility of using Azure to host the software to see if that's an option (I hadn't considered this until posting on here, so I am taking things on board).

 

[Scotteh]

This page here explains what Microsofts Internal Use software is 'Use the latest Microsoft technologies to run your business and train your staff.' Obviously there are eligibility criteria to getting access to ActionPack, etc, so not everyone can just buy a subscription.

Pretty sure if you sign up and throw money at them you can get MAPS without any criteria, if you want a silver/gold tier then there's competencies you need (e.g. Certs), this just gives you more licenses and other benefits. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I would check with Microsoft support before assuming that though, their page also states it's use as demo testing and Dev.

 

[Mark M]

There is a Sage200 online version which is surprisingly good value, for Sage! I have a few clients that use it and it works really well for them so may be worth having a look into it.

 

[Deleted member 138126]

If you do it yourself on Azure, you still have to look after it, maintain it, monitor it, back it up, upgrade it, etc. I understand the desire to learn and do it yourself, but honestly, any small business that is not 100% cloud based these days is pretty nuts. Think about this: if a company that sells business critical software doesn't offer a cloud solution for small (and large) businesses, is that company moving in the right direction, is it a company that you want to tie yourself to for years to come?

And if you are thinking of spending thousands of pounds on software, but can only afford £300 for a used server with no warranty, you aren't thinking things through.

You asked a question, but essentially you are asking the wrong question.

 

[Rozp]

I just read your thread on server specs for Orderwise or Sage 200. I realise that thread is a fair few months old, but we are currently choosing between Sage 200 and Orderwise (upgrading from Sage 50) and I was just wondering which one you went for in the end and why? Did the implementation go ok?

I'd be really grateful for any feedback.

 

[Snapshot]

The OP hasn't been on since December so don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.