Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2005
- Posts
- 7,610
Quite, but how do you reform the perfect word of the creator of the universe? Islam has some of the best self-propagation methods built in – i.e. tow the line or you’re ****ing dead.
ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion
- Thread starter robfosters
- Start date
1. Forgive my ignorance on the subject but what is it specifically about the minaret that is associated with radicalism? I thought it was just an area that a call to prayer was issued from? Or is it the call to prayer that you're objecting to?
2. This isn't even remotely feasible in our current prison climate in regards to space etc. Even if you could seperate it by having certain groups on certain wings (which would not be possible) you would then need to build seperate education blocks, workshops etc. Plus you would also end up with a large group of people with the same agenda who could plan/plot freely, rather than spliting them around the country/prison to minimise that as currently happens I believe.
Man of Honour
Those two bodies mainly deal with divorce (can you get married again in that institution) and don't force a legal framework based on religion down their followers throats. Their ruling can be ignored without being ostracised.
Whereas sharia imposes undemocratic laws based on religious interpretation, treats women as unequal citizens and can mete out barbaric punishments. It really has no place in a modern democratic secular society and so there is reason enough for it to be singled out.
Good answer thanks, but I'm struggling with the issue of treating the religions differently based on what we think is right or wrong - if that was the case I'd ban them all as all of religion is ridiculous imo.
But I do understand that they are practicing in our country and those isues are fundamentally against what we stand for, but then shouldn't we tolerate other customs & practices, as long as they are legal?
It wasn't that long ago this country was fundamentally sexist and women were second class citizens.
Soldato
Fair point
Perhaps as a nation we should work together to ensure total separation of religion from the state and that legislation is made with the wellbeing of the nation in mind rather than the idea that ones god may take offence.
Which extreme Islam would find incompatible with it's beliefs. However I totally agree that the state and teligion should be completely seperate (and that means all religions).
That doesn't actually help much, Islam is all about removing other religions, so they are going to laugh their socks off if we happily do that with our own* religion
(*in terms of a innocuous belief system entirely compatible with western culture, as opposed to one that actively/passively seeks the subjugation of it)
Liberals should stop pretending islam is a happy clappy spiritual thing like the CofE, it is not, is a revolutionary system of government whose proscribed aim is the subjugation of everyone under it.
There is no "western moderate" version of this cancer, eventually when it achieves a majority position its true nature comes out. Look at any country that blindly allows it a foothold, they just smile at your nativity.
Soldato
Well there in lies the problem you're seeing Islam and IS as the same they aren't if you start persecuting all Muslims out of fear of IS you will create a bigger problem than you seek to resolve.
Islam is a mechanical structure of control just like the church thankfully we broke the church ourselves. allbeit through years of war and intolerance.....
Islam is a mechanical structure of control just like the church thankfully we broke the church ourselves. allbeit through years of war and intolerance.....
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Yeah I've got mixed views on that - on one hand if two people genuinely want to arbitrate according to some set of principles then why not I guess...
On the other hand some may feel compelled to 'agree' to Sharia arbitration as not doing so could cause wide issues with their family and 'community'. The sexist element of Islam is also problematic, a Muslim woman could well be pressured into agreeing to a system of arbitration that is unfairly stacked against her.
I didn't mention IS.
Look at any islamic country, they are all the same. Intolerant and Patriarchal to the extreme.
Christian countries drift towards moderation, islamic countries drift towards extremism.
Look at Ireland, who would have expected they would have legalised gay marriage?
Not quite true, religions gain power through the social control of populations, but Christianity was never intended as a method of control, islam specifically is intended to control. Nobody ever got killed for leaving the Methodists.
Exactly my thoughts, also the likes of the BBC reporting that these incidents have caused huge sympathy and that its awful news to local people in each case\area, really? who gives a ****, show me the people who care about them apart from their immediate family, although i am not convinced their family actually care and are probably in on it, less people to worry about on our streets imo.
Do you have more on this?
Man of Honour
Caporegime
The minaret has no place in Islam, they aren't mentioned in either the Qu'ran nor in any other holy scripture of Islam. They are a symbol of Islamic dominance over an area - nothing more. Don't believe me? well how about the Turkish Prime Minister who said; "Mosques are our barracks, domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets, believers our soldiers. This holy army guards my religion."
Agreed but that's a separate problem. Frankly the last people I want to convert to radical Islam are violent criminals with self-esteem issues and prone to self-harming.
Now it's all coming to light I'm satisfied it's being dealt with properly by the Catholic church (less so for government-related child abuse allegations). However, as disgusting and reprehensible as child abuse is, it's not an existential threat to this country whereas the global jihad is.
