ISIS and Islamic militants - discussion

d_brennen · 16 Jun 2015 at 18:09

RoboCod said:
As expected, no actual answer.

To be fair, there is no answer. All this nonsense requires a couple of hundred years and several bloody wars to iron out

Danthus · 17 Jun 2015 at 22:48

The BBC are reporting that the girls tried to leave the UK in March.

d_brennen · 17 Jun 2015 at 23:31

What's all the fuss about? Anyone who wants to go off and be a martyr or become a martyr's widow should be allowed. They should be made to turn in their passport on the way out. Simple. We have plenty of mentally challenged people here already

itchy · 17 Jun 2015 at 23:59

You people are nuts ? :rolleyes:

Do you not see the pattern???? :confused:

1950s-1980s it was Russia
1990s it was Saddam
2000s it was Osama
2010s its Gaddafi and now ISIS .

Go figure! We always need an enemy, only way to keep the money flowing yo!

The military industrial complex will keep you afraid of something forever.
That's just the way it is and not you or I can do one thing about it. :mad:

Clown circus stuff, you get the idea!

RoboCod · 18 Jun 2015 at 00:01

Shhh, smoke your spliff and relax.

d_brennen · 18 Jun 2015 at 00:05

itchy said:
Do you not see the pattern????

The world is ruled by undesirables? Of course

itchy · 18 Jun 2015 at 00:07

RoboCod said:
Shhh, smoke your spliff and relax.

Are you insinuating I consume illicit drugs, that is defamation. :mad:

IP address recorded!

StoutMeister · 18 Jun 2015 at 00:07

Rhaos · 18 Jun 2015 at 11:54

TwsT said:
Well there in lies the problem you're seeing Islam and IS as the same they aren't if you start persecuting all Muslims out of fear of IS you will create a bigger problem than you seek to resolve.

Islam is a mechanical structure of control just like the church thankfully we broke the church ourselves. allbeit through years of war and intolerance.....

That bigger problem you are referring to already exists as Westerners are already seen as outsiders and infidels because we are not Muslim. Even non IS sympathizers see it the same. it will never change.

I think the bigger issue at hand is that Muslim communities aren't doing enough to prevent or discourage their own from going over and joining up with IS. Its as if they don't give a ****. Look at the fathers of those Bradford families, seeing them cry on TV......crocodile tears.

scorza · 18 Jun 2015 at 18:30

Who was it who was saying that there's never been a terror attack by someone dressed in a burkha? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nate-suspect-package-Watford-town-centre.html

A 'burka-clad white man' has been arrested after police detonated a suspect package in Watford town centre.
Officers were called to a street close to the Hertfordshire town's main shopping area just after 11am today following reports a suspicious item had been found outside a Travelodge hotel.

Before any smart-alec points it out, yes I'm aware that it was a white man and presumably not a Muslim behind this incident. That's the beauty of my proposed law on banning full face coverings, it would stop idiots like this guy as well.

Craterloads · 18 Jun 2015 at 18:39

Jeez you sure have got your head stuck up your own arse, talking like you've come up with some revolutionary new idea to ban face coverings. Not only that for some odd reason you think providing a example of a crime due to something somehow is evidence of how great a idea "you had".

scorza · 18 Jun 2015 at 18:59

Craterloads said:
Jeez you sure have got your head stuck up your own arse, talking like you've come up with some revolutionary new idea to ban face coverings. Not only that for some odd reason you think providing a example of a crime due to something somehow is evidence of how great a idea "you had".

What I've done is proposed a set of laws designed to tackle the notion that radical Islam is all powerful in this country. It's an alternative to the usual approach of either "ZOMG we must try to understand the muslims more", blame everyone except Muslims "If Bush hadn't invaded Afghanistan then Bin Laden wouldn't have done 9/11".

scorza · 19 Jun 2015 at 07:36

PM warns of 'quietly condoning' Islamic State ideology. Think he's talking about a few I could name on this forum.

He also highlights the role families and communities can play in countering such radicalisation. This is what I've been saying for a while here, glad the PM has finally caught up :cool:

Raz · 19 Jun 2015 at 10:10

scorza said:
PM warns of 'quietly condoning' Islamic State ideology. Think he's talking about a few I could name on this forum.

He also highlights the role families and communities can play in countering such radicalisation. This is what I've been saying for a while here, glad the PM has finally caught up

Generally speaking I find it difficult to understand why anyone would support ISIS purely from an Islamic view. They have no validity and seemingly do not follow any established jurisprudence, nor do they have support from the Sunnah. Their pull isn't the opportunity to become closer to God but to oppose the West and their allies.

This type of group has existed since the earliest days of Islam, but their focus was on other Muslims and the Caliphs. In this day and age the world is much more complicated politically and lines between peoples are more defined. Muslims see Islam being attacked by non-muslims and I imagine some see Islamist groups as defending it.

B&W · 20 Jun 2015 at 11:10

scorza said:
Who was it who was saying that there's never been a terror attack by someone dressed in a burkha? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nate-suspect-package-Watford-town-centre.html

Before any smart-alec points it out, yes I'm aware that it was a white man and presumably not a Muslim behind this incident. That's the beauty of my proposed law on banning full face coverings, it would stop idiots like this guy as well.

I would say the fact that he was a white man attempting to wear a niqab and acting suspiciously he would stick out more compared to if he wore his normal attire.

And if you think banning face coverings would reduce terrorism or crime then...

B&W · 20 Jun 2015 at 11:32

scorza said:
PM warns of 'quietly condoning' Islamic State ideology. Think he's talking about a few I could name on this forum.

He also highlights the role families and communities can play in countering such radicalisation. This is what I've been saying for a while here, glad the PM has finally caught up

No one quietly condones isis almost everyone loudly condemns it when people talk to each other.

Most local mosques condemn it too. The ones who end up being indoctrinated are for the most part either influenced online or through contact with other extremists.

Sometimes I think families could do more when they see signs of there youngsters being brainwashed. Maybe they feel excluded, are depressed ( very common ) or have other issues that make it easier for them to become indoctrinated. I wouldn't be surprised if a white supremacist and a isis fanatic had similar core issues which helped them along there path to extremism.

Xordium · 20 Jun 2015 at 11:49

scorza said:
PM warns of 'quietly condoning' Islamic State ideology. Think he's talking about a few I could name on this forum.

He also highlights the role families and communities can play in countering such radicalisation. This is what I've been saying for a while here, glad the PM has finally caught up

The PM could maybe look at the intrinsic causes that lead to people feeling so alienated though couldn't eg the increasing rich poor divide and lack of opportunities. It's alright looking at the radicalising of people that is happening in a minority of mosques but I would wager a lot of that would have less weight if the actual causes for the initial disenfranchisement occurred.

There are two angles here:

1) Attacking the ideologies that support and sanction and encourage
2) Attacking the cause for people to seek such ideologies

This administration and Blair have probably done more damage in respective to 2) than any number of extremist recruiters.

Danthus · 20 Jun 2015 at 12:21

Xordium said:
The PM could maybe look at the intrinsic causes that lead to people feeling so alienated though couldn't eg the increasing rich poor divide and lack of opportunities. It's alright looking at the radicalising of people that is happening in a minority of mosques but I would wager a lot of that would have less weight if the actual causes for the initial disenfranchisement occurred.

But non Muslims aren't nipping over to Syria are they.

There are two angles here:

1) Attacking the ideologies that support and sanction and encourage
2) Attacking the cause for people to seek such ideologies

This administration and Blair have probably done more damage in respective to 2) than any number of extremist recruiters.

So why are Muslims killing Muslims, if I am angry with the police for example I don't take that anger out on my neighbour.

Gribs · 20 Jun 2015 at 12:40

Raz said:
Generally speaking I find it difficult to understand why anyone would support ISIS purely from an Islamic view. They have no validity and seemingly do not follow any established jurisprudence, nor do they have support from the Sunnah. Their pull isn't the opportunity to become closer to God but to oppose the West and their allies.

This type of group has existed since the earliest days of Islam, but their focus was on other Muslims and the Caliphs. In this day and age the world is much more complicated politically and lines between peoples are more defined. Muslims see Islam being attacked by non-muslims and I imagine some see Islamist groups as defending it.

This article seems to give a reasonable explanation for why they do what they do.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Skunkworks · 20 Jun 2015 at 15:17

It seems to me to be an issue of the 2nd gen Muslims who have grown-up in the cushy west, yet still on a diet of romanticised Islam from their parents. The 1st gen Muslims have seen Islam in power first hand and came here for a better life. But when the spoiled 2nd gen start hitting that “I’m so hard-done-by and nobody understands me” phase that most young people go through to one degree or another, they start falling back on Islam and some of them are seeing ISIS as the Muslim version of the rebel alliance from Star Wars.