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IT based apprecticeships?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mcompute, 28 Jun 2010.

  1. mcompute

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 26 Jun 2010

    Posts: 77

    I've recently left school, (16). I've looked at a few colleges but they're long - most of them being two years and the stuff they want to teach you is Microsoft word well to start off i use Linux so that's a fail. :rolleyes:

    Ideally, i want a network based job or something that will push me such as an apprentice and learn on the jobs.

    Just wondering if someone else is in the same boat, or knows of any places that offer such a thing.

    The second option was getting the Cisco CCENT qualification under my belt through home learning ?
     
  2. SMN

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 2 Nov 2008

    Posts: 2,482

    Location: The ether

    Start on the bottom rung and work your way up. Unfortunately that bottom rung is inevitably terrible and boring, but the job is what you make it. Carve out a niche.

    Get in there as a microsoft support minion or whatever the job title is, let your linux skills be known, and whenever anything related comes up, take ownership constantly. Eventually you'll carve your niche. Nobody starts on the 4th/5th rung up i'm afraid.

    Just search places like monster and cwjobs.co.uk for "entry level", "junior" etc and see what comes up.
     
  3. Deanje

    Hitman

    Joined: 16 Oct 2006

    Posts: 529

    Location: U.K.

    A little bit of advice: don't go in with that attitude.
     
  4. Begbie

    Caporegime

    Joined: 20 Oct 2004

    Posts: 25,301

    Location: ....

    Why is that fail? You will need to know how to use MS Word for the majority of IT related jobs.
     
  5. mcompute

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 26 Jun 2010

    Posts: 77

    It's fail because how are you supposed to use a Microsoft based only program on linux, it doesn't work under wine so that means you need a VM.

    I find it ridiculous they train you in only one program, that's Microsoft dependant..
     
  6. SMN

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 2 Nov 2008

    Posts: 2,482

    Location: The ether

    Well if you were such a Linux guru mate you would have read in the news today Wine 1.2 major release now supports Office 2007 :)

    Every organisation under the sun near enough runs on AD/GPO and Office based XP/Vista/7 machines. You might not want to know it, but you need to.

    Unjustified arrogance will get you absolutely nowhere.
     
  7. mcompute

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 26 Jun 2010

    Posts: 77

    I'm by no means a linux guru, but by the same means i do not want to be working on microsoft word - making spreadsheets. Who does?
     
  8. Emlyn_Dewar

    Capodecina

    Joined: 15 Oct 2003

    Posts: 13,190

    Location: Chengdu

    Word - making spreadsheets.
    Looks like you could use an Office 2007/2010 course. :)

    Edit: To be more useful, go to college.
    All college and uni courses seem to start poorly to get everyone to the same level.
    Choose wisely and you'll learn something, coming out with "valuable" qualifications...
     
  9. Jez

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 33,003

    Where do you hope for this to go? At all levels you will find that you will generally be required to use Microsoft products. And in a lot of cases, Microsoft products only.

    Exactly, what does this guy think business' run on?
     
  10. JHeaton

    Mobster

    Joined: 19 Dec 2009

    Posts: 2,669

    Location: Lancashire

    You'll find that in most IT jobs, you will need to know it, whether that's to support people who use it or to use it yourself for making reports and stuff. I stopped using Windows frequently a few years before getting my job, so I only used it when I was in college (which wasn't a lot on our course, very short days) and it was a bit of a pain having to use it eight hours a day again. I had forgotten a lot of stuff. It's very helpful to have at least known it in the first place, so you might want to keep that in mind. It seems very hard to jump in to a Linux environment without a lot of experience (I tried and got nowhere), so if you're going in to IT, chances are you're going to be making use of Microsoft's products. A lot.

    In terms of college courses, you might want to look at some BTEC stuff. I did a Level 3 National Diploma (I think the particular one was IT Practitioner or something) and that had a lot of variety. You learned operating systems, networking, a little bit of programming etc. It wasn't great, but it was a starting point. After doing that, I got an apprenticeship at a school doing a Level 2 NVQ in a similar area to my BTEC. The qualification itself was pointless (and did not, itself, teach you anything) but the amount I learned doing the job was massive. I hadn't known anything about Active Directory, Group Policy Objects etc. before starting.

    The thing you need to do before you can decide what exactly you want to do with the education/apprenticeship is decide on an area of IT to get involved in, because IT is huge and can cover a lot. There are plenty of IT jobs where you will spend almost all of your time at a desk, some where you'll spend almost all of your time in the field and then tons more that lie somewhere in-between.

    What particular IT-related things interest you?
     
    Last edited: 28 Jun 2010
  11. SMN

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 2 Nov 2008

    Posts: 2,482

    Location: The ether

    Now that is an education fail.

    I dont think you need career advice more an attitude adjustment. I dont know what you want to achieve from this thread, whether its "Yeah mate you know linux you pwnz i haz a job for you cos you know CLI!!" or whatever, but the fact of the matter is:

    1. You are going to have to do some crummy jobs in your time, and most of them when you are starting out now as you are a novice, with no industry experience, zero proven talent and an obvious dearth in understanding how IT in business works.

    2. Again, as a former small business consultant i can assure you, nearly all business runs on Windows. You need to learn active directory, group policy, microsoft office, Microsoft operating systems in general, terminal services, printing and file services, etc which all run on Microsoft Windows.

    3. You wont be MAKING spreadsheets all the time, you will be doing what most of IT does - enabling OTHER people to make spreadsheets (finance, HR, etc) by installing the software, managing file server permissions, PC permissions, active directory logons, share management, printers etc.

    4. Experience is key - you need a foot on the ladder or qualifications under your belt at the end of the day. CCENT is not what you need right now - you need to look at BTEC's, A Levels or more advanced taking some form of Microsoft qualifications such as MCP modules.
     
  12. Blackhawk47

    Capodecina

    Joined: 17 Sep 2007

    Posts: 11,045

    Location: West Yorkshire / Market Bosworth

    What exactly are expecting from a course?

    Have a look at Linux courses which are more indepth if thats your thing but you can hardly go for a job that requires knowledge of MS and turn up at the interview and say "Nah, I only Linux..." . :rolleyes:
     
  13. memyselfandi

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 10 Oct 2005

    Posts: 8,693

    Location: Nottingham

    hmmm .... speaking as someone who spends all day working with Unix and Linux systems I still have to use standard MS Office programs a large amount as part of my job. You might be employed to look after Linux boxes but you'll probably using a standard imaged Wintel laptop with a standard MS application stack on it and you will be expected to have at least a reasonable standard of knowledge of Office in order to be able to produce documents and/or reports.

    If you came in for a junior position at our place with that sort of attitude then we certainly wouldn't employ you.

    I'm not sure I agree with that. Knowledge of how to use a MS OS and Office suite I agree with but depending on what he wants to go into and what sort of organisation it is in he may only need to know about the rest in very general terms. Most of the people I work with have no really knowledge of active directory, group policy, and terminal services etc except as end users .... they do enterprise unix/linux support and we have other groups who deal with those sorts of things.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jun 2010
  14. Trifid

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Feb 2006

    Posts: 8,672

    1) Your attitude will not get you very far.
    2) You will be expected to write documentation on the projects that you roll out.
    3) You can use Open Office on Linux and save as .doc.
     
  15. JHeaton

    Mobster

    Joined: 19 Dec 2009

    Posts: 2,669

    Location: Lancashire

    Or in some cases, on the projects that other people roll out and you have minimal involvement in! :mad:

    I agree, although I think if the OP is mostly used to Linux and not so much Windows environments, then it might be an idea to consider something like CompTIA's A+ certification first, as this gives an easier entry in to that kind of thing.
     
  16. mattyfez

    Capodecina

    Joined: 12 Apr 2007

    Posts: 10,010

    At your current level, you will have to get used to the fact that you first job will likely be wintel based with no commercial experience. as mentioned above, any Linux and networking skill will be picked up on in the right environment, and as long as you blow your trumpet in the right manner you should find yourself being moved into something more on line with your interest.
    you dont really get any option to specialize without a decent portfolio of experience and/or qualifications.
     
  17. matthab

    Mobster

    Joined: 19 Apr 2009

    Posts: 3,158

    Do another 2 years to get youa basic qualification so you can prove you know the basics. Then go and do some evening courses or part time lessons and work at the same time.

    You want to stand out from other people but if you wont with just GCSE's.
     
  18. mattyfez

    Capodecina

    Joined: 12 Apr 2007

    Posts: 10,010

    A+ is a hardware qual, I would have thought n+ would be a more relevant starting point. And maybe mcitp or similar.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jun 2010
  19. Begbie

    Caporegime

    Joined: 20 Oct 2004

    Posts: 25,301

    Location: ....

    Scrap from your brain about MS products, just about ANY job you get. You will be using MS Office products of some sort, so training in these is vital in this day and age. Something you really should have been taught in school.

    Plus, who cares what you have, surely the college/uni will have the products to train you on!
     
  20. JHeaton

    Mobster

    Joined: 19 Dec 2009

    Posts: 2,669

    Location: Lancashire

    Last time I checked, A+ covers hardware and software, a little bit of security and IT professionalism. It's quite well-balanced for an entry point (and if you combine it with the Network+ (or it might be Server+) it counts towards one of your elective modules in an MCSE/MCSA - or at least it did last time I looked in to it) and is a widely-recognised certification. Even if you plan on specialising later on, it provides a good base to work from, as you can always fall back on it if things don't quite go to plan.