It's small wonder cars go bang.

Soldato
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Popped into Motor World to get some oil today. Asked for 10W40 Semi-synth, the correct grade for my car.

They asked what car, looked in the book, and tried to sell me Castrol Eldge 0W30 (this is really what Catrol recommend). To cut a long post short, this WILL trash the crank, and the motor will start to rattle almost immidiately.

They only sold Castrol So I ended up in Halfrauds buying some Mobil S Super of the correct grade.

What must people who trust the motorfactors industry with their choice of oil be running on.
 
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Soldato
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To cut a long post short, this WILL trash the crank, and the motor will start to rattle almost immidiately.


without sounding funny for what reason should 'people who trust the motorfactors industry' believe you over castrol ?
 
Soldato
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You could ask the last person who put 0w anything in a twin spark. It's just the wrong oil, it doesn't support the bearings on the crank. Might as well run it on diesel.

The staff in the shop offered me some "even better" oil when I turned down the Castrol. It may have been good quality oil, better then the Mobil I ended up with maybe, but it was the wrong grade. There are people out there killing motors with excellent examples of the wrong grade of oil.
 
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Soldato
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A reference chart in Motor World, only featured grades of Castrol, so probably produced by them (Alfa Romeo, Selenia and all the Alfa experts I've spoken to say 10w40 semi-synth for my twin spark by the way).

But more so by the staff you find in these places.



And if you don't believe me, here is Castrol advising 0w30 in a 147 1.6TS http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.php?vehicle=1580

Here is Selena recommending Selenia 20K for the same car http://www.flitalia.it/en/fl/component/option,com_dspsearchprod/Itemid,255/ (click the P/N to see the grade is 10w40). Selenia (aka OLIO FIAT), like Alfa Romeo, falls within FIAT Group PLC.
 
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Soldato
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And if you don't believe me, here is Castrol advising 0w30 in a 147 1.6TS http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.php?vehicle=1580

Dead link for me. The Castrol website recommends 0W40 Edge or 10W40 Magnatec for mine, which is about right, though many owners seem to use 10W50. Interestingly they recommend 0W30 Edge or 10W40 Magnatec for the 147 1.6TS.

I wonder if the use of low viscosity oils has partly caused the reputation of the TS using a lot of oil?
 
Soldato
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where is Simon when you need him?

I know very little about oil but i highly doubt that such a little differance in grade would kill an engine so quickly. Running it on diesel might kill it pretty damn quick though!
 
Soldato
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Dead link for me. The Castrol website recommends 0W40 Edge or 10W40 Magnatec for mine, which is about right, though many owners seem to use 10W50. Interestingly they recommend 0W30 Edge or 10W40 Magnatec for the 147 1.6TS.

I wonder if the use of low viscosity oils has partly caused the reputation of the TS using a lot of oil?

Nah, it gets past the valve guide seals on the over-run in well used vehicles. Even on the correct grade of oil. Mine does this, uses about a litre every 1,000 miles.

It's a good idea to replace these if you ever have the head off.


Interestingly, Selenia's fully synth. oil for the Twin spark is 10w65.
 
Soldato
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Maybe its the chain diff on the Alfa, too simple for there own good that people think they dont need oil... :p
Drop the fact I may or may not have taken something you said out of the context you meant and come up with something constructive or go elsewhere.

If they only soled Castrol oil, could you not have got 10w-40 Magnatec?
Yes, I *could*, I could have used Tesco value oil too.

Crap engine that gets the finger of blame pointed at the oil by the sounds of things....
Of course the Vtec will run happily on the wrong grade of oil won't it?
 
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Soldato
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Of course the Vtec will run happily on the wrong grade of oil won't it?

Yeah it will actually.

I fail to see how a 0W-30 will make the engine fall to bits where as a 10W-40 is going to make it run forever. If you're worried about film thickness then a 10W-40 when driven hard can easily be thinner than a 0W-30 driven normally.

What is likely that happens is that the engine needs a 10W-40 due to the bearing design, load the bearings are subjected too, oil pump and oil pressure. Combine these design factors with hot oil on a hard driven engine you could have issues - issues related to engine design. This is why the people who make the engine recommend an oil, to hopefully avoid warrenty claims against engine failure.

A engine won't suddenly fall apart the second it is started with a 0W-30. The HTHS is 3.5 vs 4.0-4.2 of a typical 10W-40 part synthetic.

FWIW I would be happy putting anything from a 0W-20 to a 10W-60 in my engine being as you somehow felt the need to include VTEC.
 
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where is Simon when you need him?

I know very little about oil but i highly doubt that such a little differance in grade would kill an engine so quickly. Running it on diesel might kill it pretty damn quick though!

You would be surprised ;) Diesel has it's place
 
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What does Alfa Romeo make thier cranks out of? Glass?

The crank is nitrated steel, these never suffer damage on their own.

The shells are what wears prematurely with the wrong oil, or bad/old oil. Then when the big end starts rattling, the crank suffers damage, and it's quite expensive because of the processes it's been through.

The shock from valves meeting pistons also damages the shells which in turn damages the crank. This is quite a common one, nobody want to rebuild the bottom end at the same time as the head it seems.

That's the bottom end, and at the top we have hydraulic tappets and a hydraulic timing variator (which I will admit isn't as good as the VTEC, not seen an Alfa one fail, but all of them rattle beyond about 80,000 miles, the tappets rattle for ages if you leave the oil in too long as well, can take months to purge). This is why it's got a finer tolerance than most vehicles.
 
Soldato
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The shock from valves meeting pistons also damages the shells which in turn damages the crank. This is quite a common one, nobody want to rebuild the bottom end at the same time as the head it seems.

Eh? So now the engine needs the right oil for when the cambelt/chain snaps ?:confused:

I really have no idea what point you are trying to make, go read about how a journal bearing creates its own hydro-dynamic lubrication. There is no boundary condition under normal operating, only from cold start. From a cold start a thinner oil can only help as the oil and therfore hydrodynamic support arrives soon

The materials they are made of is irrelevant unless the engine has oil supply problems allowing the metal on metal in the bearings, or has serious aeration problems allow cavitation which can damage bearings.

Loads of engines have hydraulic tensioners, even VTEC engines (again no idea why you have brought them up - other than the fact i have one). These can rattle too, usually its due to them running low on oil though.

I cannot see a reason why these engines are anything special. Most crankshafts are nitrated and loads of engines use hydraulic valvetrain hardware.

This is why it's got a finer tolerance than most vehicles.

No - It has crap tolerances and hence appears to need a thicker oil to hold it together. Japanese engines have fine tolerances, and this is why the equivilant Toyota engine will come with a 0W-20 from the factory
 
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