Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2004
- Posts
- 12,957
What are your opinions on this?
Job hopping vs job for life
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
Soldato
Hop. Within reason. 18 months - 2 years is a reasonable time somewhere in my opinion.
The fact is, you're not rewarded for loyalty like you once were. The old be here for 10years and climb the ladder just doesn't happen.
My stepbrother has been at BT for like 8yrs now and got a pay rise, first in 3 years, of 500quid. He was told it was at the limit of the band he was in, but if he got another job offer, they would have to try and match it...
I mean wtf?! Basically, we don't value your service as much as we know it'll cost us more to replace you.
The only way up the ladder well, in most cases, is to move jobs.
The fact is, you're not rewarded for loyalty like you once were. The old be here for 10years and climb the ladder just doesn't happen.
My stepbrother has been at BT for like 8yrs now and got a pay rise, first in 3 years, of 500quid. He was told it was at the limit of the band he was in, but if he got another job offer, they would have to try and match it...
I mean wtf?! Basically, we don't value your service as much as we know it'll cost us more to replace you.
The only way up the ladder well, in most cases, is to move jobs.
Soldato
Depends what you want really? Money wise you're generally going to do better job hoping unless you constantly ask for raises, but working at a company for longer sometimes opens up opportunities that would otherwise not be available. This is generally true if you want a career direction change within an industry - easier if a company knows you than trying to convince a new company to take a punt on you without much experience.
Is anyone guaranteed of a Job for life? These days, not really. There are so many consultations, reorganisations, mergers and downsizing events that anyone who thinks they have a job for life is kidding themselves. Keep looking around, never burn your bridges and keep your ears open. (Says the man who's worked for the same company for ten years. I even left and came back again! Different role now though)
A hop less than 2 years means you're not really adding much to the company - typically company growth figures are linked to strategies.. after 3 years you have some serious input into the company typically.
Think of it like this - sales cycle, delivery and the customer to be truly happy - how long do you think that will take?
For sales guys, it's not just the quarter - but typically the year-on-year value build that you're looking for. Even more so with business development and product management.
If it's set length project or work within that scope - then it's a simple implement and deliver.
Personally I think people are short term under 3-4 years - because people's actions would have come back to haunt them by this time... not like someone that comes in for a year then leaves without knowing why actions during that year are bad.
5 years is good but typically you start seeing less inventive and innovation because they're so ingrained into the company structure.
Move around when you're young - get exposed to as much as possible. Then when you seek more responsibility then you'll be looking longer ... but when you get to 5 years without really moving up to a decent level then move.. the older you get the more people think you're old, have no ideas and can't do lower level jobs.. they expect a level of professional understanding and responsibility linked to your age.
There is no job for life. If people think there is (a) they're lazy, (b) they're naive and (c) they will not be productive for the company as the external factors the market has to work in change.
Think of it like this - sales cycle, delivery and the customer to be truly happy - how long do you think that will take?
For sales guys, it's not just the quarter - but typically the year-on-year value build that you're looking for. Even more so with business development and product management.
If it's set length project or work within that scope - then it's a simple implement and deliver.
Personally I think people are short term under 3-4 years - because people's actions would have come back to haunt them by this time... not like someone that comes in for a year then leaves without knowing why actions during that year are bad.
5 years is good but typically you start seeing less inventive and innovation because they're so ingrained into the company structure.
Move around when you're young - get exposed to as much as possible. Then when you seek more responsibility then you'll be looking longer ... but when you get to 5 years without really moving up to a decent level then move.. the older you get the more people think you're old, have no ideas and can't do lower level jobs.. they expect a level of professional understanding and responsibility linked to your age.
There is no job for life. If people think there is (a) they're lazy, (b) they're naive and (c) they will not be productive for the company as the external factors the market has to work in change.
Caporegime
I've had four jobs in the past three years... Company #1, then moved to company #2 for 6kPA more, then moved to company #3 for 4kPA more, then got a pay-rise of 2kPA for changing shift pattern.
I'll stick this one out for a couple of years tops, I don't have any particular plan to stay.
I'll stick this one out for a couple of years tops, I don't have any particular plan to stay.
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"It depends"
When starting out, I stayed for about 18 months, then 6 months, then another 18 months.
I've now had just two jobs in the last 16 years (8+8), my current place I've had a few different roles, but all essentially the same job (software dev.) and my salary is now more than double what it was when I started.
If you find the right company, you stay. If they don't value you, you leave.
When starting out, I stayed for about 18 months, then 6 months, then another 18 months.
I've now had just two jobs in the last 16 years (8+8), my current place I've had a few different roles, but all essentially the same job (software dev.) and my salary is now more than double what it was when I started.
If you find the right company, you stay. If they don't value you, you leave.
My history goes something like this for roles, not employer:
50 months
8 months, left employer
17 months
28 months
30 months
19 months, left employer
17 months and counting
So nearly 5 years at my first employer and nearly 8 years at my second. Looking back aside from the two times I actually changed company, the times I was getting itchy feet were in the three periods where I'd been in the same role for over 2 years. Doing 4 years in the same role was annoying for many reasons, not least because it was the highest pressure job I've had yet also lowest paid.
So overall I think that I'd be happy staying with a company if I was progressing every say 18 months but in many organisations you can only get so far before you get pigeon-holed in terms of what your perceived skillsets are, or alternatively you find that you're massively underpaid because you've got smaller increments when changing role compared to the open market.
50 months
8 months, left employer
17 months
28 months
30 months
19 months, left employer
17 months and counting
So nearly 5 years at my first employer and nearly 8 years at my second. Looking back aside from the two times I actually changed company, the times I was getting itchy feet were in the three periods where I'd been in the same role for over 2 years. Doing 4 years in the same role was annoying for many reasons, not least because it was the highest pressure job I've had yet also lowest paid.
So overall I think that I'd be happy staying with a company if I was progressing every say 18 months but in many organisations you can only get so far before you get pigeon-holed in terms of what your perceived skillsets are, or alternatively you find that you're massively underpaid because you've got smaller increments when changing role compared to the open market.
It really depends on your field of work - job hopping is usually due to career progression. I'm all for job hopping 'upwards and in the same field' which is the most common route, unless you want a full on career change.
There are no longer the incentives to have a job for life. Final salary pension schemes were a big draw at one point in time. However there are still some cases where I see it more:
- Civil Service. Still a half decent pension and there is effectively a huge internal job market. It is easy to move between geographies and departments easily and keep your length of service and associated benefits.
- Jobs where work/life balance is a strong part of the culture. Typically money is not the primary reason for working where they do and moving may tip the balance of what they want in life so they don't bother.
Personally if I'm happy and enjoying my work and earn enough to sustain my lifestyle then I stick around. My history goes something like:
5 years - From graduate to glass ceiling so had to move to progress my earning
18 months - Corporate restructure ended up making my working life a living hell
3 years - Was always going to be a finite engagement since the organisation had an objective that was met after three years
2 years - downturn in business ended in redundancy
5 years - political shenanigans around shareholding ended badly
2 years and counting - loving it
Interestingly out of the six companies I've worked for, all bar one I was sounded out by contacts to join. In fact three of the roles from one colleague who was a bit of a mentor in my early years! Guess it shows the importance of having a healthy and active business network.
- Civil Service. Still a half decent pension and there is effectively a huge internal job market. It is easy to move between geographies and departments easily and keep your length of service and associated benefits.
- Jobs where work/life balance is a strong part of the culture. Typically money is not the primary reason for working where they do and moving may tip the balance of what they want in life so they don't bother.
Personally if I'm happy and enjoying my work and earn enough to sustain my lifestyle then I stick around. My history goes something like:
5 years - From graduate to glass ceiling so had to move to progress my earning
18 months - Corporate restructure ended up making my working life a living hell
3 years - Was always going to be a finite engagement since the organisation had an objective that was met after three years
2 years - downturn in business ended in redundancy
5 years - political shenanigans around shareholding ended badly
2 years and counting - loving it
Interestingly out of the six companies I've worked for, all bar one I was sounded out by contacts to join. In fact three of the roles from one colleague who was a bit of a mentor in my early years! Guess it shows the importance of having a healthy and active business network.
Associate
Only recently moved into my first IT job in the last 6 months. prior to that I was 2 years at the local hotel, which was unusual as where i worked had a high staff turn over with university and the business itself investing in improving.
I still always have one eye on the market however.. so I can do what is best for my own personal development
I still always have one eye on the market however.. so I can do what is best for my own personal development
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,308
Civil Service = Job for life.
Plenty of people will go on about how that has changed nowadays, but from knowing a good number of Servants as well as being married to one, it seems you still have to REALLY try very very hard to mess up on purpose before they'll kick you out!
So yeah, job for life and what seems like half a year in holiday allowance... You just won't get a pay rise.
Suspended
I have had three jobs in 26 years. I've only left when I felt the current one could no longer meet my expectations. I don't know if that's the norm or not, but I don't feel it's held me back.
Associate
Personally - I've been with the same employer (barring name changes) for 10 years.
I have moved about internally a fair bit to land were I am, and I'm now wishing I had moved else were. I'd certainly be on my money, but the whole side of would I be happier I'm not so sure.
This year will decide as I'm thinking of moving internally if there is anything worth applying for internally
I have moved about internally a fair bit to land were I am, and I'm now wishing I had moved else were. I'd certainly be on my money, but the whole side of would I be happier I'm not so sure.
This year will decide as I'm thinking of moving internally if there is anything worth applying for internally
Been where I am just over 4 years now, though I am gaining a professional qualification and some very good experience.
It's not uncommon here to look down on regular job hopping when we see it on CV's but I guess its circumstantial.
No plans to leave within the next 18 months unless a much better opportunity comes up. The company as a whole does value it's employees and looks after them fairly well financially so money is never usually a reason for leaving.
Not sure I would stay here for life, being only 26, work/life balance is good but the world is much bigger than this company and this industry and some social/diversity aspects are a bit lacking.
Nutshell:
Job 1: 1 year, 11 months (moved away + opportunity)
Job 2: 4 years, 2 months (passively looking to move for the right opportunity but no rush)
It's not uncommon here to look down on regular job hopping when we see it on CV's but I guess its circumstantial.
No plans to leave within the next 18 months unless a much better opportunity comes up. The company as a whole does value it's employees and looks after them fairly well financially so money is never usually a reason for leaving.
Not sure I would stay here for life, being only 26, work/life balance is good but the world is much bigger than this company and this industry and some social/diversity aspects are a bit lacking.
Nutshell:
Job 1: 1 year, 11 months (moved away + opportunity)
Job 2: 4 years, 2 months (passively looking to move for the right opportunity but no rush)
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Soldato
Mine goes like this:
4 months - audit junior position
5 years - offered position in another company without looking to change
26 months - good company to work for but limited outlook for promotion
2 years - Handed my notice in three times before I eventually left (offered more money and foolishly took it) – I will never work for a US owned company again, they are insane. 14-16 hour days, no fun.
30 months - went back to company I was at for 26 months and was running their largest client but pressure got too much
8 years so far - different role but enjoying the position and the pay is good, equivalent to director position but not big enough to justify so not really chance to progress but not an issue for now
I do partly regret moving to the US company but without that I wouldn’t have had the experience of (unofficially) running a small team and dealing with so many business and interpersonal issues, plus the insane amount of overtime meant we could afford the house we are in now so although I prefer to stay at the same place for as long as I can, sometimes there are benefits in moving around every 2-3 years.
Saying that, I now get CV’s coming to me and first thing I look for is whether the potential candidate chops and changes their job regularly as I would rather someone that can be relied upon to learn the ropes and be around for the long term.
4 months - audit junior position
5 years - offered position in another company without looking to change
26 months - good company to work for but limited outlook for promotion
2 years - Handed my notice in three times before I eventually left (offered more money and foolishly took it) – I will never work for a US owned company again, they are insane. 14-16 hour days, no fun.
30 months - went back to company I was at for 26 months and was running their largest client but pressure got too much
8 years so far - different role but enjoying the position and the pay is good, equivalent to director position but not big enough to justify so not really chance to progress but not an issue for now
I do partly regret moving to the US company but without that I wouldn’t have had the experience of (unofficially) running a small team and dealing with so many business and interpersonal issues, plus the insane amount of overtime meant we could afford the house we are in now so although I prefer to stay at the same place for as long as I can, sometimes there are benefits in moving around every 2-3 years.
Saying that, I now get CV’s coming to me and first thing I look for is whether the potential candidate chops and changes their job regularly as I would rather someone that can be relied upon to learn the ropes and be around for the long term.
I'm in a relatively stable (job safety wise) role and working with a bunch of people who are a great team - I've stuck around longer than I normally would. I think there are many aspects to it and it will be different person to person and area of work.
Associate
I have no idea what I should be doing so I've applied for a load of different jobs and potentially I'll be hopping from job to job in the next 3 months but ideally I want to stay somewhere for a few years and get comfortable.
I don't believe in a job for life though, does anyone anymore.
I don't believe in a job for life though, does anyone anymore.