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Joint Tennants and Tennants in Common

Discussion in 'Home and Garden' started by Nikumba, May 19, 2020.

  1. Nikumba

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 4, 2002

    Posts: 3,662

    Location: Bourne, Lincs

    First of this is being looked at by a solicitor however I am not sure he is right from what I have read on various websites and land registry.

    Background

    Grandmother in law owned two properties with her husband both properties on the land registry showing as Joint Tennants as they were married so owned both half's of the properties. Her husband passed away so according to the wording on his death she got the other half of the house.

    Now this is where it gets complicated. So both houses were sold and she moved with one of her daughters to another property however that relationship went sour and short story the house down south is being sold and will be used to purchase a house with her other daughter up my way.

    So the house from down south was put on the market and when was sold STC we got a letting from a no win no fee lawyer saying the daughter is entitled to money as her dad left one of the properties in his will, this was news to us.

    In the will it says he leaves one of the properties to the daughter, however there is nothing on the land registry to back this up, but our solicitor says they does not need to happen they can be an agreement that overrules the land registry. We are waiting for the solicitors who did the will originally to send the documents over, and the grandmother in law has no knowledge of this, nor the will was changed giving the house to the daughter.

    So from my point of view she is not entitled to any money as the house was owned by the grandmother in law and owned solely by her from the granddads passing.

    So not sure if need to wait for documents to be exchanged, or seek a second opinion.

    Thoughts?

    Cheers

    Kimbie
     
  2. Slade2

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 14, 2011

    Posts: 1,041

    Location: Stafford

    Surely, you cant leave a house to someone in a will if you don't actually own it? You could leave 50% of it to someone else as that is what my grandad did, he left it in his will to my dad so that if my gran ever needed care in later life they can only take 50% of the value. Its fairly common now.

    So, given the above the daughter would be entitled to 50% of the sale price of one of the houses??

    This is potentially going to get messy because the original solicitors should have found the new will and acted on it rather than the old will. The daughter might have to pursue a case to get the grant of probate reversed and the assets distributed as per the new will.
     
  3. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 10,394

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    But if the grandparents had 2x 0.5 houses each in effect, he could leave the value of one, being two halves to anyone he wanted (within reason) in his will

    It sounds in effect almost as if he was wanting his wife to pick one and the other to go to the daughter
     
  4. Skillmister

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 3, 2009

    Posts: 19,601

    Location: Wales

    I'm not saying this is what happened in these circumstances as you said it was done by a solicitor but this is a perfect example of why people shouldn't just DIY a Will from online or a WHS Will Kit as it can cause all sorts of problems.

    If they owned the property as joint tenants they both own the whole house there are no "shares" as such so on the first death the property is vested solely in the survivor. It is as simple as sending a death certificate to the land registry to prove this and the deceased's name will be removed from the title.

    Tenants in common each own respective shares that can be left through a Will to whoever you like. The land registry will enter a restriction on the title preventing sale by a sole person which would alert solicitors dealing with the sale.

    However this means that if the property is owned as joint tenants but the Will requires something specific it causes a problem. I am not a Will/Trust/Probate lawyer so I don't know what would have been the best way to deal with it at the time but generally when people update their Will and their wishes require ownership as tenants in common it would get changed at the land registry at that time.

    I dont think anyone would be able to advise without seeing the Will so it will be one for the solicitors to figure out
     
  5. Nikumba

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 4, 2002

    Posts: 3,662

    Location: Bourne, Lincs

    From what we can tell sending of the death cert was never sent as both their names are still showing on the land registry report but from what you are saying tallies with my view that on the death of the grandfather the entire house passes to the other spouse and thus can't be left in a will to a daughter.

    Sadly the solicitors are dragging their feet with this, and I know the current situation is not helping but still seem slow to deal with it
     
  6. PurplePhoenix

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 20, 2014

    Posts: 362

    Location: Southampton

    You can make the new will void as she could of forced him to write it .

    It's a attempt to get cash or a free house, I would just tell them to do one and say the money is no longer there and it went all to the tax man.
     
  7. Surveyor

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 5, 2010

    Posts: 22,060

    The OP would do well to ignore your post and any other "advice" you might offer.
     
  8. PurplePhoenix

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 20, 2014

    Posts: 362

    Location: Southampton

    Sorry I was meant to say It sound like Undue Influence has taken place instead of void. It seems odd that his wife did not know about the new will.

    Anyway it is down to OP and his solicitor to decide on what they do, After all this is a website about computers and one time posters asking for DIY advice :D.
     
  9. LeeUK

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2008

    Posts: 5,106

    If they were Joint Tenants then the property passed to the sole survivor on his death therefore he could not leave the property in his will to someone else, unless he was the sole survivor and died last.

    If they were Tenants in Common then they both owned shares (usually 50%) and therefore he could only leave his 50% share of in his will.

    It will usually say something like "no disposition by a sole proprietor..." on the Land Registry Title Register if it's Tenants in Common.