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Labour unveils National Grid takeover plan - your thoughts?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by SDK^, May 16, 2019.

  1. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,639

    Oh please, and you speak like a True capitalist...screw everyone else but me. The pendulum has swung to far down the road of profit above all else. The so called wealthy lord it over everyone else countless millions on trinkets, while everyone toils for them in a utterly unequal balance of wealth... I get 10 you get 3 and be thankful you get 3 plenty of over people only have 1 ready for me to exploit.
     
  2. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,421

    Location: Plymouth

    You're still not sounding any more rational or less hateful. You are advocating arbitrary discrimination by the state to punish people who have a characteristic you object to. You are no better than a racist, a sexist, a homophobe, or any other common or garden bigot, you are even using the same Language of blame as they do.
     
  3. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,208


    And yet the rich are perfectly happy to discriminate, and the state is perfectly happy to have a system in place that discriminates against the poor.

    This is the wealth distribution that states are supporting by discriminating against the poor to make the distribution even more skewed:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealt...bution_by_percentile_in_the_United_States.png


    Equating redistribution of unfairly distributed wealth to discrimination of gender or sexuality etc. is just a pathetically weak argument from you.
     
  4. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,421

    Location: Plymouth

    Pretending that it's something else is far more pathetic, but bigots always try to justify why their particular form of bigotry is a special case and not like the others.

    Equality of outcome is unachievable in any society that respects human rights and freedom.
     
  5. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,639

    Whay is hatefull about wanting a change that benfits all. I get it, you simply are not wanting to change the status quo... i am all right Jack.
     
  6. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 8,958

    NVM
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  7. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 6,085

    I disagree even with people moving to contractors the post privatisation generating companies were adequately staffed even with that initial 1/3rd loss. Many jobs were hopelessly padded out. The industry even 5 years ago was probably a further 20% down on privatisation numbers and relatively comfortable. The recent subsequent loss of the coal fleet though has reduced the industry to a very thin level with little capacity to flex resource.

    The majority of the efficiency improvement in generation was achieved within a few years of de-nationalisation. Everything since has increased risk for little benefit. The recent upward trend in wholesale prices is very much regulatory driven the industry has never been leaner.
     
  8. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 8,958

    NVM
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  9. Bear

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 24, 2002

    Posts: 12,364

    Location: Bucks and Edinburgh

    Or you could turn it round, you failed at life and want other people to pay for things you arent willing or able to earn for yourself. That is fine, we should help the less able just dont colour it as anything else
     
  10. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,585

    The problem is is that is also your attitude toward taxes so what would be the difference.

    Of course it is. Your desire for it not to happen is not a human rights issue.

    I have to say the only thing that gives me doubts about renationalisation is the risk of the Tories underfunding it in the search of more profit or as they would see it less cost resulting in a poor outcome, just like everything else they do.
    I didnt fail at life yet Im quite happy for my taxes to be spent that way. Isnt it more a case of some people failing at 'society' and not wanting to share or help others. Doesnt sound very Christian. Maybe you would be better suited in say the UAE or some place like that.
     
  11. Bear

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 24, 2002

    Posts: 12,364

    Location: Bucks and Edinburgh

    Im quite happy to pay my taxes, I just dislike hypocrisy. Its quite ok to slate wealthy people despite them paying the vast majority of tax and yet the poor are some kind of holy untouchables and its fine wanting more and more of other peoples money.

    What the **** has being Christian got to do with anything?
     
  12. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,585

    Yet you seem quite happy to slate the poorer people who do the vast majority of the work that no wealthy person would do themself. The wealthy only pay the most in taxes because they make the most amount of money. Its a fairly simple concept to grasp.
     
  13. SPG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 5,639

    So a few extra millionaires with against the same old
    Who is colouring it as anything else. The majority of these problems are simply down to inequality, the poor get blamed for everything where 95% the problem of being poor is the rich keeping the poor in its place as it suits them for

    A- Creating wealth
    B- A nice distraction for A

    Even the UK poor have got it good compared to the majority of the planet, its wrong on every level. Yet everything proposed is to say ahhhh lets give them a token gesture as long as i remain rich.
     
  14. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,421

    Location: Plymouth

    I don't support the status quo, I support widespread change based on equality of treatment by the state, with no discrimination based on arbitrary factors.
     
  15. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,555

    You are arguing with people who have a with us or against us mentality - if you don't agree with their truth then in their minds you are in bed with what they consider the enemy regardless of what you actually say.
     
  16. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,585

    Hold on, you are the one constantly going on about 'people that are doing the right thing' in your eyes as if poorer people are not also 'doing the right thing'. You are no different!

    You seem to think that your opinion has the higher moral ground when the actions you are going against are the actual higher moral ground by dint of wanting to help others or at least make it easier for them.
     
  17. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,555

    EDIT: I didn't explain myself at all well there - by doing the right thing that is in reference against people who've trampled on society to get ahead in life - I'm talking about people who've built some kind of life for themselves through following the supposed ideals of society, largely morally and law abiding, etc. that isn't intended to be prejudice against those who haven't had the opportunities. (Yes usually I'm referring to hard working people whether that is a lot of hours at minimum wage or someone that has studied and/or worked their way up through a career path to a well paying position).

    I've also never defined what segment(s) of society people I consider doing the right thing are part of - (although sometimes my focus when talking on those topics has been somewhat broadly upper working/middle class). Anything else is purely an assumption on your part. But ultimately these are the people who will bare the brunt of well meaning but unworkable policies.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  18. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 8,958

    NVM
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  19. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,421

    Location: Plymouth

    This is true, you cant reason someone out of an irrational position based on hating a group of others they have defined in their head. What you can try and do though is prevent that irrationality from spreading.
     
  20. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,585

    Fair enough, but I see people working minimum wage for crap companies/bosses as "doing the right thing" aswell. Even more so if Im honest.

    When I hear people say 'doing the right thing' I always assume they mean those that had a comfortable life already then went to uni and got high paying jobs. It just harks back to alarm clock Britain, JAMS and all those other terms that are set out to make people despise others and take the blame away from governments for shortfalls in services. Its the whole 10 biscuits thing. Rich man takes 8 gives 1 to his freind and then says to poor people look those people are trying to take all your biscuits. Its a horrible divide and conquer attitude instilled in people to look down on those less fortunate by giving them prejudices to look for.
    Labour did far better from 1997 onwards and people faired far better then and even up to 2010 than they are doing now. But yeah lets look back to a time when most people didnt even have colour TVs as a time period to emulate. All you have to do is look at what the Tories have done and are still doing to public services to be slightly worried about what they would do to a nationalised company.

    I wouldnt mind the Tories so much if Cameron had been true to his word. Hell I even accepted Camerons government win (coalition) at the time as I didnt think they would be so destructive.