LCDs with LED backlights?

Ev0

Ev0

Ev0

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Was reading something the other day saying that some companies are starting to use LED backlights for their LCD tvs which are better than current backlight systems.

Anyone know if this is going to come along and be the norm in the near future?

I'm looking to buy a 32 inch LCD in the near future but would be annoyed if I got one then a significant change in technology came along (I know tech changes all the time but there are noticible jumps).
 
Following Samsung’s exciting debut of LED backlit screens covering laptop, monitor and television panels it has wasted no time in pushing out the first consumer products.

Christened the ‘Bordeaux’ range – because the bottom resembles a Bordeaux wine glass, not because it gets you drunk – it comprises 32in, 40in and 46in models and, vitally, LED backlights.

Unlike the prototype screens which claim a staggering 100,000:1 contrast ratio based on this technology, the first Bordeauxs offer a more real world 10,000:1 rating. Saying that such a figure is way beyond what most companies have been able to provide up until now – even allowing for the way Samsung sneakily pushes up these figures. Furthermore Samsung claims the LED backlights will make the range reproduce colours with more vibrancy than any LCDs that have gone before it.


http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/news/2007/02/05/Samsung-Debuts-LED-Blacklit-LCDs/p1

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2007/02/09/Samsung-Announces-Bordeaux-Line-of-LCD-TVs/p1
 
Yeah they already have it out in the form of the LE40M91 . Samsung typically seem to preview the latest panels and tech in the M range as they sell these in smaller number and at a premium price point. I had one of the M61's last year and it had the top end Bravia panel before the Bravia did.
 
Would people say it's worth the wait for one? Anyone reckon other manufacturers will start doing this?
 
Anyone know how these LED backlights work? Is it an array of small LEDs that are constantly switched on/off based on what the pixels near them are showing? So for instance if an area of the screen is black, the LEDs behind are switched low or off to give a superior black depth. Or is it just a constant even light like CCFLs produce, but more even?

Just wondering how LED backlighting can produce a better contrast ratio.

I was looking at a Samung LCD in highstreet store the other day (not a Bordeaux, just a regular CCFL backlight type) and it had a contrast ratio of 5000:1 (dynamic obviously), but black depth was no better than the 800:1 Philips sat right next to it. In other words the 5000:1 is nothing more than a marketting gimmick on that particular screen.
 
fish99 said:
Anyone know how these LED backlights work? Is it an array of small LEDs that are constantly switched on/off based on what the pixels near them are showing? So for instance if an area of the screen is black, the LEDs behind are switched low or off to give a superior black depth. Or is it just a constant even light like CCFLs produce, but more even?

Just wondering how LED backlighting can produce a better contrast ratio.

I was looking at a Samung LCD in highstreet store the other day (not a Bordeaux, just a regular CCFL backlight type) and it had a contrast ratio of 5000:1 (dynamic obviously), but black depth was no better than the 800:1 Philips sat right next to it. In other words the 5000:1 is nothing more than a marketting gimmick on that particular screen.
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Yes it is an array of white LED's that can be independently controlled, so if the screen is showing black that area of the screen can have the backlight turned off completely.

As to the 5000:1 issue. I believe most are around 1200:1 native so should have been better than the 800:1 TV but i'd never compare any units unless I could adjust the settings personally as the defaults are often awful on TV's and usually have colour up too high as well as brightness to make units more eyecatching in store.
 
I'll be needing a tv in the next month or two and so far the Panasonic TX-32LXD60 is the TV of choice, but sods law I'll buy one then something far better and cheaper will come out :)
 
Ev0 said:
I'll be needing a tv in the next month or two and so far the Panasonic TX-32LXD60 is the TV of choice, but sods law I'll buy one then something far better and cheaper will come out :)
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saw the 32lxd60 for 541 quid the other day, truly a bargain at that price. Mate has one, nice picture for TV and 360 usage.
 
pinkaardvark said:
Yes it is an array of white LED's that can be independently controlled, so if the screen is showing black that area of the screen can have the backlight turned off completely.
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Thanks for the info :) It does sound like a good technology in theory.

Funny thing is after checking the website of that retailer I went into, that was a Bordeaux set I was looking at (LE32R74BDX at £750). Running on the same feed as the sets around it, the black depth was no better at all. Odd :confused:

I've read several reports about the LE32R74BDX, that people had seen it in the shop with a great black depth, took it home and found their set was far worse with poor blacks and even poor viewing angles. There's a thread on avforums about it, and people were suggesting Samsung were putting the screen out with a different CMO panel after running out of their own panels in the run up to christmas. Maybe I was looking at the CMO panel. Either way there's no way I was looking at a 5000:1 set.
 
fish99 said:
Thanks for the info :) It does sound like a good technology in theory.

Funny thing is after checking the website of that retailer I went into, that was a Bordeaux set I was looking at (LE32R74BDX at £750). Running on the same feed as the sets around it, the black depth was no better at all. Odd :confused:

I've read several reports about the LE32R74BDX, that people had seen it in the shop with a great black depth, took it home and found their set was far worse with poor blacks and even poor viewing angles. There's a thread on avforums about it, and people were suggesting Samsung were putting the screen out with a different CMO panel after running out of their own panels in the run up to christmas. Maybe I was looking at the CMO panel. Either way there's no way I was looking at a 5000:1 set.
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5000:1 is dynamic, most owners turn off dynamic, which leaves you with a static ratio of around 1200:1 as pinkaardvark said...which isn't much better/the same as competing sets. I personally don't think the viewing angles are poor though.
 
Well, dynamic contrast gets most sets to less than 2000:1, so I was assuming the LED backlight was how Samsung had got the Bordeaux range to 5000:1. I know it's still dynamic, but if you can vary the backlight per pixel then you can get a genuinely darker black (deep black and high contrast ratio are the same thing given an equal brightness). So the point I was making was that having seen a Bordeaux in the flesh, the black depth was no better than every other LCD in the store, so I'm a little curious about the real point of LED backlighting.

I would have bought the LE32R74BDX but after seeing it in the flesh it was a big dissapointment, which is why I brought up the avforums thread about the alternate CMO panels. The opinions about the viewing angles weren't mine btw, I didn't notice any viewing angle problems when I saw it, but I did notice a typical-LCD poor black depth and surprisingly dull picture. The Bordeaux they had on the gadget show this week looked far superior - good black depth, plenty of contrast.

Seems likely I saw a CMO panel in store.
 
The LE32R74BDX does not have LED backlight technology. That's an old set from last year. The current models are F71 and N73 but only the LNR460D and LE40M91 actually have LED backlight tech. The active contrast ratios on those are 10,000:1

Interestingly they are applying it to their new DLP units too http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/06/samsung-hl-s5679w-dlp-with-led-backlight/
 
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Any news on these LED backlights?

Im quite interested in them as it will be a decent jump in visual quality but it seems samsung and others are slow at making these mainstream which tbh should have started to happed at least a year ago, i can't see how the tech is that expensive or hard to mass produce so its annoying that they're taking so long, really they should be in many of the mid to high end ranges now.
 
Look this video is from last year, seems pretty good and by now they must have improved as well, can't wait until these or those OLED or SED displays come, why do they take take such a long time to get stuff out, you would have thought with such good results these displays would be out by now. :(
 
LED's have recently doubled in output and efficiency, which means they are now beating CCFL's in terms of lumens per watt. Great news for laptop users, as yer battery should last longer if it has an LED backlight.

Also, if the LED's they use are properly colour matched, the screens should give a more "white" white if you know what I mean.

I'm not sure if black levels will be improved, but will probably make improvements if they can.
 
Radiation said:
Strange theirs not a lot of interest in this, i thought people wanted better images? :confused:
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because as posted below, the primary advantage is power use

they arent that much brighter in normal use than CCFL tvs. In laptops, an extra 2 hours battery life is a big deal

but with a TV that stays powered to the mains and plugged in its not much of a deal.

Bottom line is that we are waiting for Local dimming LED sets. These enable specific LEDs to be turned off, giving complete 100 % black, as theres no backlight in this area

the current samsung LED tvs dont have this. They are either all on or all off. And arent much brighter than normal

hence why they havent got much coverage.
 
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