Legal Eagles needed - company not paid for equipment - won't hand it over.

wasc · 18 Jul 2006 at 11:58

Ok - Short story.

Company A signed a contract with the company I work for stating we would put a new server in.

We went to site, put server in e.t.c (4 day project) doing up their whole network.

They now refuse to pay for anything, and have got a new company in to lock us out of the server.

So the situation is that they are running their entire business from a server which legally belongs to us as it is unpaid for, not to mention the charges for 4 days engineer time. My boss is dragging his heels over this, but i'd like to make some suggestions to him if possible. What can we do. Boss doesn't want to call debt collectors in (not yet anyway) as apparently if we give them the debt they'll take a percentage of it.

My first thought is that by locking us out of our server, they may **possibly** be in breach of the computer misuse act??

Cuchulain · 18 Jul 2006 at 12:03

wasc said:
Ok - Short story.

Company A signed a contract with the company I work for stating we would put a new server in.

We went to site, put server in e.t.c (4 day project) doing up their whole network.

They now refuse to pay for anything, and have got a new company in to lock us out of the server.

So the situation is that they are running their entire business from a server which legally belongs to us as it is unpaid for, not to mention the charges for 4 days engineer time. My boss is dragging his heels over this, but i'd like to make some suggestions to him if possible. What can we do. Boss doesn't want to call debt collectors in (not yet anyway) as apparently if we give them the debt they'll take a percentage of it.

My first thought is that by locking us out of our server, they may **possibly** be in breach of the computer misuse act??

Debt collectors wont take a percentage of what you're owed. Get in contact with a solicitor, if need's be take them to court, if it goes as far as a debt collector going in to retrieve your goods then they add their own fee's on top which the debtor will have to pay on top of any court costs.

ErinGoBrath · 18 Jul 2006 at 12:04

It seems like we're not hearing both sides of the story here. Why would 'Company A' refuse to pay for anything and hold onto your server?

Is there a dispute over pricing or the work done by your engineer?

nige · 18 Jul 2006 at 12:11

ErinGoBrath said:
It seems like we're not hearing both sides of the story here. Why would 'Company A' refuse to pay for anything and hold onto your server?

Is there a dispute over pricing or the work done by your engineer?

Seconded.

Go see a solicitor – you’ll not get the sufficient level of advice here. I’d suspect that rather than attempting to make a claim within the bounds of any odd computing Act you have a fairly straightforward case of breach of contract (pending you providing us with further details). Your company has been contracted to perform a service, that service has been performed, the defendant has not performed what they agreed within the contract (payment) and has therefore breached.

IANAL

wasc · 18 Jul 2006 at 12:11

ErinGoBrath said:
It seems like we're not hearing both sides of the story here. Why would 'Company A' refuse to pay for anything and hold onto your server?

Is there a dispute over pricing or the work done by your engineer?

The server initially supplied by us from Dell was faulty. This was not our fault that Dell shipped a server that was DOA and the contract specifically mentioned that any parts delivered by our supplier can potentially be faulty and we cannot be held responsible.

We contacted Dell who failled to despatch an engineer when promised so in the end we fixed the server ourselves (new psu) only for it to fail a week later (hard disk dead). At this point we tore Dell to pieces who shipped a new server out - this was faulty too.

We kept good communications up with the company at all times, but ultimately Dell let us down. I do not know if the company specifically requested a Dell server or not, but they did know they were getting a Dell server and that the contract excludes any errors Dell make.

Dave M · 18 Jul 2006 at 12:25

So they're playing hardball for a discount? I'd leave it to your boss to negotiate it if I was you.

wasc · 18 Jul 2006 at 12:49

Telescopi said:
So they're playing hardball for a discount? I'd leave it to your boss to negotiate it if I was you.

They don't want a discount - they want to pay absolutely nothing.

Samtheman1k · 18 Jul 2006 at 12:55

wasc said:
The server initially supplied by us from Dell was faulty. This was not our fault that Dell shipped a server that was DOA and the contract specifically mentioned that any parts delivered by our supplier can potentially be faulty and we cannot be held responsible.

We contacted Dell who failled to despatch an engineer when promised so in the end we fixed the server ourselves (new psu) only for it to fail a week later (hard disk dead). At this point we tore Dell to pieces who shipped a new server out - this was faulty too.

So the server they currently have is still faulty? The contract is with YOU, not Dell. It is up to YOU to ensure that it is fixed. If the servers aren't fully working, then I wouldn't pay either.

richard smith · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:02

Remind me never to order a Dell server!

If I'd ordered services which included hardware that didn't work, I'd be damned sure I wouldn't pay. Regardless if it's your fault or not, you supplied faulty kit.

Adz · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:03

Telescopi said:
So they're playing hardball for a discount? I'd leave it to your boss to negotiate it if I was you.

As would I. Dealing with stress like this is part of the price you pay for running a small business unfortunately. If you were a larger company, the clients would have been eaten alive by your lawyers already

.

calnen · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:08

You probably should have mentioned this in the opening post

TBH, if you're the ones supplying them with the server then surely its up to you to make sure its working properly? Also, how could your engineer spend 4 days installing a broken server? What exactly did he do?

If you're giving them broken equipment then I'm not surprised they're not paying. Since you bought it from Dell, I'd have thought you should handle the return with them and then make sure you install a working unit to the company that are buying it from you.

Yas786 · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:08

richard smith said:
Remind me never to order a Dell server!

I have 3 of them and nothings gone wrong with them in the past 4 yrs ive had them set up in my office. Best servers ive ever used and cant fault them tbh.

GoldenGlory · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:17

Spawn said:
I have 3 of them and nothings gone wrong with them in the past 4 yrs ive had them set up in my office. Best servers ive ever used and cant fault them tbh.

Have to say they are very power hungry brutes, overheat often.
HP Proliant range is by far superior.

Anyway, back on topic

Quantic · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:23

Your company is in breach of contract. They have failed to provide a fully working server/network. The other company has every right to withold payment until the breach is rectified. Basic legal principles.

wasc · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:23

Response time

Server is currently working. Dell replaced it (after we complained) with a brand new server. When the bill was sent to them the server was running fine and had been for 2 weeks.

calnen · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:28

wasc said:
The server initially supplied by us from Dell was faulty. This was not our fault that Dell shipped a server that was DOA and the contract specifically mentioned that any parts delivered by our supplier can potentially be faulty and we cannot be held responsible.

We contacted Dell who failled to despatch an engineer when promised so in the end we fixed the server ourselves (new psu) only for it to fail a week later (hard disk dead). At this point we tore Dell to pieces who shipped a new server out - this was faulty too.

wasc said:
Response time

Server is currently working. Dell replaced it (after we complained) with a brand new server. When the bill was sent to them the server was running fine and had been for 2 weeks.

Would you mind just telling us the whole story, rather than adding a new bit every time you post? So are you saying there was a third server which you delivered, which was working?

Quantic · 18 Jul 2006 at 13:29

wasc said:
Response time

Server is currently working. Dell replaced it (after we complained) with a brand new server. When the bill was sent to them the server was running fine and had been for 2 weeks.

Ahhhhh right. Changed things then. Technically, the server does not still belong to you. It is correct that they haven't paid for it, so you would THINK it still belonged to you - legally that is not the case. HOWEVER, you can go in legally and remove the server. Then you can claim the money through the courts for your four days of labour.

Yas786 · 18 Jul 2006 at 14:05

GoldenGlory said:
Have to say they are very power hungry brutes, overheat often.
HP Proliant range is by far superior.

Anyway, back on topic

Cant say any of mine have overheated tbh, they sit in a nice air/con office with the temp of about 20c. They are indeed power hungry brutes...well you would expect them to be with dual xenon cpu's

badgermonkey · 18 Jul 2006 at 14:10

calnen said:
You probably should have mentioned this in the opening post

TBH, if you're the ones supplying them with the server then surely its up to you to make sure its working properly? Also, how could your engineer spend 4 days installing a broken server? What exactly did he do?

If you're giving them broken equipment then I'm not surprised they're not paying. Since you bought it from Dell, I'd have thought you should handle the return with them and then make sure you install a working unit to the company that are buying it from you.

Either way, it sounds like they were trying to do their best to fix the problem. There is no excuse for them to be locked OUT of the servers considering they appear to be trying to make them work.

Dave M · 18 Jul 2006 at 14:15

They just want a discount - somebody is handling the situation badly if this can't be resolved without legal advice.