Lib-Dems accept defeat on Lords:

Jesus, you don't half spout some rubbish. The Boundary Commission are putting right the Gerrymandering, there's no way to spin in that it's wrong to do so, just makes you look bitter.

Describing the bias in our system as "gerrymandering" is utter tosh. And I have no idea why you've quoted what you've quoted in your reply, I was talking about voting against Lords reform. That Clegg's gone and sunk the boundary changes on the back of it must feel like Christmas for the Labour party.

What Labour will say when they vote against Cameron's boundary changes I don't know but I figure it'll be targeted at unnatural boundaries needing to be drawn, traditional areas being broken up and so on as well as the imperfections in the electoral register leading to inaccurate impressions of unequal constituencies. The Lib Dems, on the other hand, are just going to look petty.
 
Sorry to drag this back up but I saw this in today's Sun from their Scottish political editor and couldn't stop laughing all afternoon..

Trevor Kavanagh - Scots Tory Extraordinaire said:
NICK CLEGG probably assumed the explosion of joy over Britain's Olympics glory offered a good time to bury bad news.

Nothing else - not even his humiliation over House of Lords reform - can justify sabotaging Tory hopes of outright victory in 2015.
[continued]

Although I stopped reading there pretty much.

Aww diddums, what else do you expect? The party to march itself to oblivion, just so the Tories can achieve this fabled majority in 2015?

What selflessness are the Tories going to show, in return?
 
Their plans for the NHS are around page 40 of their manifesto. I see nothing that closely matches the Tory plans which were widely opposed by LibDem members, not in the coalition manifesto and go directly against what the Tory manifesto said.

Apologies, I was working from memory on the page numbers, however, you're still wrong about the matches.

Page 41 discusses abolishing SHAs
Page 42 discusses how centralisation will be reduced and central targeting reduced.
Page 43 discusses replacing them with local commissioning boards (the primary difference is that instead of these being GP led, the proposal is for elected boards).
Also on page 43, it discusses how the local commissioning boards will be able to commission services from a wide range of providers.

Those are the key points of both the manifesto and the reforms implemented, with variation in the construction of the commissioning groups from a popularity to a merit based approach.
 
Still shocked they dare to claim we have a democracy when nobody (read: not a proportional majority) actually voted the Torys or the Lib Dems into office... let alone supported either mandate. To make matters worse the entire time they have been in office all they have done is turn it into a massive ****ing contest... Come to think of it nobody voted in the last Labour leader either... the last guy anyone voted for with any conviction was Blair and he's demonized now.

Politics... what a joke.
Democracy for the middle east? How about we start at home.

You do realise that the Tories alone got a greater share of the vote than Blair did in 2005? You do also realise that the coalition is the first government to have a technical majority of the popular vote since the 1950s?

Labour actually did far worse in 2010 than the Tories did in 1997 in terms of votes, but the gerrymandered electoral system protects them.
 
Labour actually did far worse in 2010 than the Tories did in 1997 in terms of votes, but the gerrymandered electoral system protects them.

The system is not gerrymandered, it is biased. Do not confuse the two. Gerrymandering is deliberate manipulation of the system, whereas the bias in our system arises from patterns of support combined with patterns of population movement.

UK Polling Report has a good discussion.
 
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Page 43 discusses replacing them with local commissioning boards (the primary difference is that instead of these being GP led, the proposal is for elected boards).

That is not a trivial difference.

Also on page 43, it discusses how the local commissioning boards will be able to commission services from a wide range of providers.

Different services; it is talking about bringing co-operatives, etc. into areas where currently only private providers are allowed not allowing private providers into care provision, or allowing hospitals to bring in more private patients.
 
Without wishing to delve too deep into the party-political rivalry that has entered this thread, to answer the OP's title all I can say is GOOD!

Without wishing to blow my trumpet too much, I covered this very topic for my degree dissertation just over a decade ago and my reasonings and conclusions are just as valid now as they were then.

Firstly, I accept that the reforms brought in by New Labour to remove the voting rights of hereditary peers were probably the right thing to do. To make the Lords an entirely elected second chamber, however, would be a very dangerous step and one which would threaten the very basis of our parliamentary democratic system.

As things stand, the House of Commons (or 'Lower House') holds the ultimate democratic legitimacy, having been elected directly by the vote of the people (the weaknesses of the electoral system such as First Past The Post notwithstanding). The House of Lords, or' Upper Chamber' merely exists to act as a 'check and balance' to the legislative actions of the 'Lower House'. In practice this means that any proposed legislation - or Green Paper (or 'Bill') after being read and voted for approval in the Commons is passed to the Lords for reading and approval. The Lords can reject any 'Bill' and propose amendments to it up to three times (or 'Readings') before the Commons can force it through despite their objections. This is important given their primacy in terms of legitimacy, but the Lords has served its' purpose as a form of "Are you sure?" and "Are you sure you're sure??" check and balance on the Commons.

Do not under-estimate the Lords. The traditional (and sceptical) view is one of grey old 'fuddie-duddies' who have lost touch with the modern world rejecting anything that doesn't protect their way of life and well-being. The New Labour reforms helped to eradicate this element from the Lords, but each elected party also helps to reduce this by appointing new members during their term. To generalise, they tend to be a cross section of people with a great deal of life experience and, despite being from a well-off background, have a social consciousness that widely expands that of their background (charity founders/benefactors for example) and can offer that to the benefit of the nation. There have been numerous examples of the Lords providing a better reflection of public opinion than their elected cousins in recent history.

To turn the Lords into an elected second chamber is extremely dangerous in my opinion. As soon as you give the Lords (or 'Upper Chamber') greater legitimacy by making it elected, it will demand greater involvement in the policy and law-making process than the current 'check and balance' status than it currently holds, and why shouldn't it? It will suddenly be equally as legitimate as the Commons (or 'Lower Chamber'). We will then end up with a political system similar to that in the US with the Senate and the House of Representatives, with both vying for legitimacy and ultimately little getting done.

I'm not saying our current system is perfect - far from it - but think long and hard before changing it!
 
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