1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

London Climate Protests

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by crinkleshoes, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. MadMossy

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 25, 2004

    Posts: 6,068

    Location: Sunny Torbaydos

    If they went around protesting at petroleum refineries which would have no impact on the general public short term, what they do today may not have an impact for several days or weeks, by which time average joe would have forgotten about those crusties who blocked the refinery.

    If you want to force adoption of electric vehicles, make petrol/diesel harder to get.
     
  2. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,559

    Location: Wales


    "I want more done to improve the environment, so I'm going to disable public transport!!!"


    Yeah :/

    But interestingly by your definition terrorism is democratic protest if the person wants it badly enough
     
  3. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,559

    Location: Wales



    For me a major highlighting difference in these protest which show them not to be about change or a cause but just about having a bit of a middle class riot and fun.


    Hong Kong protests, violent and dangerous somone hurt and an ambulance comes and goes the crowd parting like the red sea in front of it.


    Extinction rebellion protest violent and full of vandalism but no reciprocal violence from the police. Somone is hurt ambulance comes and they block it. Knowing thier plans would disrupt emergancy rooms thier response "sorry but this is more important"
     
  4. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,972

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    Speaker's Corner
    I dont really think there's any need to be quite that facetious, but I can understand on one level that to try and get as much attention as possible, hitting London commuters is one way to do it.
    One mans terrorist...
     
  5. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 14,070

    They would have to go to the middle east to have any hope of putting a dent in petrol/oil production. They might not come back alive lol

    They are picking on soft targets. They thought that would be commuters in Canning, they were wrong.
     
  6. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,972

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    I don't know why you're so fixated on electric vehicles, it's only a small part of the problem, but to address it specifically:

    Look at the latest brainwave by the government, green number plates: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50122268. Green number plates! The problem isn't the colour of registration plates, it's the entirely unambitious 2050 target for zero emissions. It's the lack of investment in infrastructure to support electric vehicles. Its misguided ideas like allowing electric vehicles to use bus lanes. Too low incentives for electric vehicles, along with not punitive enough costs for running petrol/diesels. Heavily penalised Electric only lanes on motorways, turning our motorways into toll roads which has many benefits as far as I can see; firstly across almost all of Europe, ours are some of the only motorways you can just turn up from any country and use for free, despite paying no taxes towards their upkeep. And more importantly it penalises people the more driving they do, and would raise a decent amount of money for the exchequer (at least in an ideal world, in reality of course we all know revenue would go to a private company, but you could at least tax it).

    We can urinate money up the wall pushing ourselves over an economic cliff leaving the EU, but we can't invest properly in electric cars & infrastructure.

    We can waste £2bn upgrading 40 miles of motorway from huntingdon to Cambridge - when its proven to do nothing but increase congestion and pollution - but we can't spend £2b on sustainable transport or electric infrastructure.

    Its mindset thats the problem. The government just don't care.
     
  7. MadMossy

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 25, 2004

    Posts: 6,068

    Location: Sunny Torbaydos

    Infastructure takes time to build, what they plan today might not actually happen for several years, that unfortunately is the nature of construction, a greater insentive would be for the manufacturers of cars to build charging points, Tesla already build their own, but afaik no one else does. We already have an agreed on standard in the UK for charging (CCS), if the government said to business, for each charging station you build in city/town areas you get X tax relief, for rural areas you get Y, more and more people would adopt electric vehicles.

    They are after all significantly cheaper to run than a petrol/diesel car with a substantially lower maintenance cost.

    Typical diesel car @ 60mpg is gonna cost on average 10p/mile before you factor in maintenance costs.
    A typical electric car with a 40kw battery is going to cost on average 2p/mile before you factor in maintenance costs.

    For a vast majority of people a 40kw battery (capable of 160miles per charge) would be more than enough, most people do less than 30 miles per day.
     
  8. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,972

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    80% of car journies are <4 miles. Most people don't need to use a car :).
     
  9. MadMossy

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 25, 2004

    Posts: 6,068

    Location: Sunny Torbaydos

    They also don't want to spend 2 hours walking to and from the shops :)
     
  10. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 4,760

    10 mins each way on a bike, less if you get an electric one.
     
  11. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 14,070

    Or even less on a petrol powered bike :D
     
  12. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,972

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    Statistics seem to show that footfall is dropping massively so if those numbers are going down I'm not sure shopping explains the disparity.

    Still, if everyone shopped on line and had things delivered on a regular schedule for a certain area (by electric vans ofc) it would probably actually be significantly better for the enviroment.

    Imagine how many people go in a car, individually, to a supermarket during the course of a day for example - if every single one of those shops was delievered by an (electric) van covering a certain area it would reduce the traffic an awful lot.
     
  13. nkata

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 7,083

    Location: Cheshire / Staffordshire

    up to 4 miles in 10 minutes on a push bike, your legs are better than mine.
     
  14. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 7,106

  15. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 9,842

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Shame it doesn't mention what this storage coming online is.

    Even so looks positive in general.

    I know in china they said that renewables were at cost parity with traditional and still falling.
     
  16. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 4,760



    I guess it's only a matter of time before this sort of thing becomes standard when you go to an event/concert etc.
     
  17. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,537

    Hooray no more fracking (until after the election that is).
     
  18. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 14,070

    Naa. Once these companies move out they won't come back.
     
  19. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,537

    Thats a shame after all the government funding they got. Do we get that money back then?
     
  20. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 14,070

    Doubt it. A lot probably went on policing the protesters 24/7 otherwise they blocked the roads to the sites :p