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London Climate Protests

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by crinkleshoes, 17 Apr 2019.

  1. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

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    Location: Plymouth

    Their determination to drive popular support for much harsher crackdowns on protest has to be admired though.
     
  2. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,819

    Given the Tories crackdown on protesting already do you really think they would be bothered by what some group does?
     
  3. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 19,875

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Associating "advocating something something against climate change" with "people who make pollution worse and make life worse for many other people and who don't care if what they do kills someone, which it will do sooner or later" is counter-productive if the goal is to appeal to a larger number of people. So if that is their goal they'd literally be better off doing nothing at all. The same applies to affecting the government too, although the process is different. It's politically bad for a government to give in to force, so they usually won't. At best, the government will ignore them and carry on with their existing plans regarding the environment. At worst, their actions will give the government a political excuse to be more authoritarian and/or politically taint environmental concerns and thus make the government less active on environmental concerns.

    The only way such actions could make things "better" (from the protestors perspective) is if they can drive enough fear/anger in enough people to get enough support for their actions for them to gain serious power. Enough power to control the government (or become the de facto government) and control everyone who doesn't obey them. Also, enough power to be able to keep that power when their actions start to very seriously adversely affect the lives of many people. Which is what their actions would do, since their goal is to remove something vital to modern civilisation without having a viable plan for what to replace it with. They refuse to even acknowledge the existence of problems with renewables and that makes it far more difficult for other people (the people who actually get stuff done, as opposed to being as annoying as possible to as many people as possible) to solve those problems. They ignore any effect on any other aspect of life. They either have no plan for running a country or the pie in the sky plan of communism.

    The least bad outcome is that other people (the people who actually get stuff done, as opposed to being as annoying as possible to as many people as possible) will solve the problems and these people will take credit for it and thus gain power from other people's work...but be too disorganised to capitalise on it.
     
  4. explicit4u

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Nov 2008

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    Location: London

    What are they trying to remove that we can't do without?
     
  5. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Aug 2007

    Posts: 13,229

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Well ignoring the person who clearly hasnt being paying attention, the latest group are quite specific in what they are requesting.

    So they are simply asking for government action to do stuff we can do, so nothing outrageous there. They are also asking for something that until recent years was basically also available via grants either fully or more normally paid for to something like 50%.
    I mean it wasnt that long ago that this was completely normal. We talk of improving, but we are literally through poor policies and recent government budgets not doing things we were doing even pre awareness of the damage we were doing, its utterly bizarre.

    Now for those light on history, the action they are taking is basically no different to the suffragettes (there are other examples) where the general populace was far from convinced initially. Add in a government who couldnt give a monkies there really isnt that much else they can do. Basically sit back and wait and hope, or try to get headlines (which they achieved) and try to start building momentum.

    Its odd for me, I don't feel any particular drive to support them based on their direct actions, but oddly the over reaction of people who seemingly cannot add 2 + 2 together and rant and throw tantrums makes me think they probably should have more of my support.

    I am reminded of James O'Briens friend who was in the back of a taxi when all the faux outrage about the last big wave blocking roads and how people were all like but what if someone is going for chemo or something. His friend called him, saying he was literally one of those people, actually in the back of a taxi being affected, but even with that said he supported the protests.
     
  6. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 19,875

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    A reliable supply of electricity.

    The current excuse is insulation, yes. But it's just the current excuse.

    They're nowhere near as bad as the suffragettes. They're like the suffragettes in that they're jumping on a bandwagon other people have made, disrupting the very process they claim to be advocating for and taking credit for other people's work, but unlike the suffragettes they're not absolutely devoted to irrational prejudice, lying and the use of violence as a political tool. The suffragettes ran a bombing campaign targetting civilians and only stopped escalating because they decided they wouldn't be able to get away with it during a world war. These people are nowhere near that.
     
  7. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Aug 2007

    Posts: 13,229

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I think your very confused. I suggest you go and read up a bit more as your way off piste.

    I'm not engaging in one of these with you I made that mistake once before.
     
  8. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 19,875

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Good. I've no interest in engaging with any of the "you don't agree with me, therefore you're ignorant" brigade. There's no point.
     
  9. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: 13 May 2003

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    I remember those days, won't see their like again.
     
  10. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 19,875

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    I'm hopeful that we might. Scientists and engineers might be able to solve the problems political environmentalists are demanding everyone ignore. Or they might make fusion practical and that might get used enough despite the usual OMG NUKULAR KILLS EVERYTHING messaging.
     
  11. philo-sofa

    Hitman

    Joined: 22 Oct 2012

    Posts: 828

    The climate issue won't be fixed nor noticeably changed by sitting down on a motorway and demanding houses be insulated.

    It's pointless and mostly about having a fun day out amid a burgeoning sense of belonging for the protesters.
     
  12. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 13 Oct 2006

    Posts: 78,318

    That is a pretty disingenuous way to try and swipe away what are real concerns in this regard.

    Same with the "oh looks they are letting an ambulance through" and ignoring the real problem it constitutes.
     
  13. edscdk

    Soldato

    Joined: 17 Jul 2008

    Posts: 7,207

    When we start to get food shortages and it starts to hit average people's lives.. Aka way too late to help that generation or the next several..
     
  14. explicit4u

    Capodecina

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    Location: London

    You'd have to refer to a specific group for your post to make sense, groups like XR do not promote what you're saying.

    Have any blue light services complained or put out a statement about the protests?
     
  15. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 13 Oct 2006

    Posts: 78,318

    Regardless of whether they have or haven't this is the kind of thing they have to deal with when events like this cause traffic to back up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDp3sISUBo0 it isn't even like people in this country queue in a manner to create a lane for emergency vehicles. I would not be happy if a loved one was delayed getting emergency response due to having to make their way like that because of a few plonkers sitting in the road but it isn't even just about emergency vehicles.
     
  16. edscdk

    Soldato

    Joined: 17 Jul 2008

    Posts: 7,207

    Isn't the idea behind those actions to get people talking about the issue and to publicise it?
     
  17. XeNoN89

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Mar 2007

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    Location: SW19

    Shock they've done it again after all being released and literally telling the police they are going to do it again.

    Who could have foreseen this?
     
  18. Josh

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    Location: Surrey

    J9 this morning, like the M25 isn't bad enough on a Friday.
     
  19. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 50,079

    Location: Plymouth

    And this is why the public needs much stronger protection from these fanatics.
     
  20. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,819

    So you are against the British right to protest. Rarely has anything been changed by writing letters to your MP. The fanatics are the people who want to curtail/ban rights.