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London Climate Protests

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by crinkleshoes, 17 Apr 2019.

  1. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 19,907

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    No, I don't.

    Firstly, many men didn't have the vote either. But of course you wouldn't care about that.

    Secondly, they "urged members to help the country" by harassing men who weren't dead (white feather campaign). But of course you wouldn't care about that either.

    Thirdly, the suffragettes were a profoundly authoritarian organisation. Both externally (obviously!) but also internally. Unlike the voting reform campaigners, the suffragettes didn't have internal democracy.

    But most importantly from my point of view, they routinely used violence and tried very hard to commit mass murder to cause terror to gain political power. That was "the campaign" you refer to.

    Except that, of course, they did. Most notably the first Reform Act, aka The Great Reform Act. You're probably not aware of any voting reform before your murder-hungry "heroes" realised they could abuse the voting reform campaign for their own ends, but it started to really get going almost 100 years before then and the most important success was in 1832.
     
  2. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 19,907

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Spot on IMO, but I think there's another thing that would have to radically change - the entire global economic system.

    A large part of the problem is the frequency of replacement of stuff. A combination of fashion, planned obsolescence, integration of components (to improve efficiency but which also reduces repairability), probably some other factors that don't come to my mind at the moment. The point is that stuff is replaced with a very high frequency and the global economy is wholly dependent on that. Recycling is at best partial and very inefficient. In many cases, it's impossible. In many more, it takes more resources to recycle something than it does to make it from raw resources. So recycling can't be a solution to the high frequency of replacement. Durability, repairability and an end to fashion would go a very long way to reducing the environmental impact, but that can't be a solution without a radical change in the entire global economic system. It depends on a constant demand for new stuff. But nobody has a working replacement system.
     
  3. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 19,907

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Collateral damage. This sort of climate change protestors can't possibly be ignorant of the fact that what they're demanding is impossible without quite a lot of people dying. They regard that as an acceptible cost.
     
  4. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,826

    Some had the vote, women did not.

    Completely and utterly different. The women's movement did get behind the war effort. The 'white feather' was against the anti-war/refusenicks and had ZERO to do with the womens movement.
    Really!!

    — Emmeline Pankhurst[18]

    "Tried very hard to commit mass murder" You are getting hysterical.

    If you read about the Reform Acts you will find they did very little for universal sufferage. It was not until 1918 that anything was really done.
     
  5. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 19,907

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    After 3 reform acts, each one extending the vote. The incoming next reform act would have completed the change to universal adult suffrage. It would probably have happened sooner without the suffragettes corrupting the voting reform campaign.

    That's an obvious untruth in several ways. Firstly, the white feather campaign was against any and all men who weren't fighting in the war. Secondly, the suffragettes (and the women's movement in general) were a big part of it. Have you never even looked at their own material? You don't seem to know anything about them. It was only ~100 years ago. Quite a lot of the original material still exists.

    Yes, really. The best you can do is quote a whitewashing press release from one of the two rulers of the ideology (who was already being sidelined - like any authoritarian ideology, there can only be one Supreme Leader).


    I'm simply stating a simple fact. They planted bombs in public places with the sole intention of killing as many people as possible in order to spread fear. That is what happened. According to extant written records by suffragettes. Acknowledging reality is not hysteria.

    The best you can do is to claim that when they burned places down they didn't deliberately do it while people were inside. Obviously a sustained campaign of arson will kill people sooner or later. But you're ignoring the bombs entirely. Remember, they were still escalating their violence when WW1 stopped them.

    That claim is so bizarrely untrue that I'm at a loss to reply to it.
     
  6. philo-sofa

    Hitman

    Joined: 22 Oct 2012

    Posts: 830

  7. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: 9 Nov 2009

    Posts: 21,780

    Location: Planet Earth

    There is an oversight a lot of the discussion about oil misses - the fuel we derive from oil is probably the easiest thing to replace. But what about all the rest of the petrochemical industry which is required for a lot of other things?? That is the biggest issue when oil runs out - its all the other stuff we derive from oil. Most of these environmental alternatives probably rely in someway on products derived from oil.

    Its only when you look at global supply chains do you realise,its going to be impossible to wean ourselves off oil for a while just for the petrochemical aspects of it,as most of the focus seems to be on fuel replacement technologies,NOT,the rest of it.

    Plus,a lot of environmentalists don't understand that not only is our global population growing,more and more people want western standards of living,and don't want to be sat in a mud hut eating what they can grow in their back garden.

    You can't also just stop global travel - the world has been interconnected for 100s of years. Ships produce pollution too,and the antiflight movement has become a tad irrational.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Cars,ships,road haulage all produce far more pollution than aircraft,and long haul flights are not easily replaceable,and not everyone flying long haul is doing it for fun(families are increasing spread out all over the world,and so are certain jobs which are not easily done remotely).

    It is short haul flights which have significantly worse pollution per km compared to longer haul ones. You could probably cut nearly half of all global flight pollution via replacing shorter haul flights(under 2500km) with trains,etc. If people reduced car usage and we shifted more road haulage to trains,it probably would easily reduce more pollution than all forms of flying.

    So many poorer countries rely on tourism and export of their products to survive,as they need reserve currencies to be able to exist as countries. Hence global trade and global movement of people still needs to exist.

    So unless the west and environmentalists really want to try and attempt to address the issues with how the global banking systems work,lots of countries will push back against trying to reduce global trade and even long haul flights,as their people need to have food now,instead of worrying about the issues further down the line. There needs to be a big shift in how global economics work,not just usage habits and better technologies.
     
    Last edited: 19 Sep 2021
  8. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 68,372

    Location: Wales

    I wonder if the insulate Britain lot will be held accountable for the paralysed woman
     
  9. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Nov 2006

    Posts: 21,830

    I watched an interview with that insulate Britain guy...

    Wow, I've never seen anyone make themselves look like a complete ***** so fast. The second he opened his mouth you could just tell lol. He is probably doing this to get his 15 mins of fame, such a punchable face too.
     
  10. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

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    Location: Wales



    Then stormed off :D
     
  11. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Aug 2007

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    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Boom.

    Imagine, they could bring in one of the far more sensible ones or bring in one that they knew 100% was going to act like an idiot. I wouldn't be surprised if they put stella on tap in the green room ;)

    Its basic political and social manipulation.
    All shows do it, listen to Ferrari, James oBrien etc, some are more obvious but they all ensure that they get the right reaction.

    I mean I like James Obrien, I think in general his shows are good, but every single Brexiteer (other than polished ones like Rees Mogg) he ever interviewed was a total train crash. Repeatedly getting simple things wrong, repeatedly cutting off, shouting etc.
    IE basically not really any different to the guy who they interviewed here.
     
  12. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Nov 2006

    Posts: 21,830

    He has picked a vaguely climate related subject and made a scene around it. Its big news so others jump on the bandwagon to get some likes on social media.

    Maybe we should do our own, plant flowers everywhere otherwise we are going to lay on the motorway!
     
  13. V F

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Aug 2003

    Posts: 19,110

    Location: UK

    Funny, I got recommended that video on Youtube. The guy wouldn't even answer the fact his home wasn't insulated.
     
  14. 4K8KW10

    Capodecina

    Joined: 2 Sep 2017

    Posts: 10,307

    [​IMG]

    World's youth returns to the streets to fight climate change

    BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Young people around the world began taking to the streets on Friday to demand urgent action to avert disastrous climate change, in their largest protest since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.

    The strike takes place five weeks before the U.N. COP26 summit, which aims to secure more ambitious climate action from world leaders to drastically cut the greenhouse gas emissions heating the planet.

    "Everyone is talking about making promises, but nobody keeps their promise. We want more action," said Farzana Faruk Jhumu, 22, a youth climate activist in Dhaka, Bangladesh. "We want the work, not just the promises."

    Demonstrations kicked off in Asia and were planned in more than 1,500 locations, according to youth movement Fridays for Future. In Germany alone, organisers expected hundreds of thousands to attend more than 400 protests.

    "It has been a very strange year and a half with this pandemic. But of course, the climate crisis has not disappeared," said Swedish activist Greta Thunberg.

    "It's the opposite - it's even more urgent now than it was before," said Thunberg, who will strike on Friday in the German capital Berlin.

    A landmark U.N. climate science report in August warned that human activity has already locked in climate disruptions for decades - but that rapid, large-scale action to reduce emissions could still stave off some of the most destructive impacts.

    So far, governments do not plan to cut emissions anywhere near fast enough to do that.

    The United Nations said last week that countries' commitments would see global emissions increase to be 16% higher in 2030 than they were in 2010 - far off the 45% reduction by 2030 needed to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius.


    Friday's strike marks the in-person return of the youth climate protests that in 2019 drew more than six million people onto the streets, before the COVID-19 pandemic largely halted the mass gatherings and pushed much of the action online.

    Yusuf Baluch, 17, a youth activist in the Pakistani province of Balochistan, said the return to in-person events was vital to force leaders to tackle the planetary crisis.

    "Last time it was digital and nobody was paying attention to us," he said.

    World's youth returns to the streets to fight climate change (msn.com)
     
  15. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: 13 May 2003

    Posts: 7,468

    We absolutely need smart meters that throttle household supply to renewable availability then these dilettante can live their dream for bit.
     
  16. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Nov 2006

    Posts: 21,830

    A bunch of flag waving hipsters aren't going to change anything in the long run. They are just an annoyance in the grand scheme.

    Things are happening behind the scenes but it's not going to take a long time to change.

    Though the root cause is there are just too many people to feed. But the public don't want to hear about anything birth control related. The fix might not be what they want to hear....
     
  17. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: 20 Jan 2005

    Posts: 41,649

    Location: Co Durham

    Let covid hit herd immunity and kill a few million elderly off? Of wait, they tried that and the public wouldnt stand for it.
     
  18. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: 25 Jul 2003

    Posts: 39,381

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    Might have been different had it affected the younger generations :p.
     
  19. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: 1 Dec 2010

    Posts: 40,936

    Location: Welling, London

    Today, the idiots have decided to glue themselves to the road at the Blackwall tunnel entrance, and a few other places too.
     
    Last edited: 4 Oct 2021
  20. XeNoN89

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Mar 2007

    Posts: 8,676

    Location: SW19

    Just drag them away and let the glue rip the skin off their hands as a gift for their stupidity