Malaysian GP 2009 - Race 2/17

I thought that the device charges and then stops charging when the limit is reached. (hence the arguments about variable braking forces)

So the full 6.6 seconds of use would have to be fully charged before it could be used again. So, double use on the straight would not be possible.

However, if you nail the full 6.6 seconds of KERS on the start finish before you start the lap, your speed on the straight will be increased when you start the lap, and by the time you get around to the finish line, you will have used another 6.6 seconds up :)
 
Type_R said:
I guess therefore it would make sense to have a system where you could potentially use 800kJ in one go, so that you could end your last lap and start a new one on 2x boost if you like!
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Maybe for a mechanical system; but definetely not for an electrical one. You'd double the weight of the already heady batteries, plus you'd need have sufficient charging opportunities to make that possible. While the double boost scenario is possible; I can't see it happening in race conditions very often.
 
All this talk of single and double boost has made me think of Ridge racer for some reason.

Kers - such a good idea for the image of the sport - to be seen to be developing energy recovery systems that will one day be in our own road cars and thus single handedly saving the planet. I thought there were to be 2 dishcharge rates, one for a smaller boost available each lap and a larger one that once depleted took a few laps to recharge.

Re the battery indicator - surely this just shows when the allocated time per lap has been reached and thus resets automatically at the timing beam over the start finish line - this reset just shows the time not the state of charge of the kers, or am I thinking about this too much?
 
vcl_X1 said:
Kers - such a good idea for the image of the sport - to be seen to be developing energy recovery systems that will one day be in our own road cars and thus single handedly saving the planet. I thought there were to be 2 dishcharge rates, one for a smaller boost available each lap and a larger one that once depleted took a few laps to recharge
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Kers are unlikely to find thier way into road cars though, almost all the manufacturers have said that the technology is of littl ebenefit to road cars.
 
vcl_X1 said:
Re the battery indicator - surely this just shows when the allocated time per lap has been reached and thus resets automatically at the timing beam over the start finish line - this reset just shows the time not the state of charge of the kers, or am I thinking about this too much?
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Yep the indicator only shows when it is being used, recharged and how much of the 6.6secs they have remaining. Not the battery level. It would be great to know how many seconds a full kers system stores and how many seconds of braking it takes to charge it.
 
Mr Jack said:
It takes 6.6 seconds of braking. The restriction on energy transfer to the KERS system cuts both ways.
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That does not sound right at all. First of you don't have 100% efficiency and two I doubt in low speed corners you could generate 80bhp without locking the rear wheels.
 
realscot said:
Pretty much all your hybrid vehicles have KERS, they charge the batteries under braking etc just like the F1 cars do. By Hybrid i mean Electrical being one of the power units.
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battery power cars are a gimmick, the motor industry know this. unless battery technology changes.
The future fuels, hydrogen or fuel cell(electric) won't have a need for kers.
 
AcidHell2 said:
That does not sound right at all. First of you don't have 100% efficiency and two I doubt in low speed corners you could generate 80bhp without locking the rear wheels.
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I'd like to think it could be done very easily really. My assumptions could be very wrong though :p

The cars can stop quicker than they can accelerate from a given speed. I'd assuming it would take a similar level of force + energy to stop the car as bring it up to speed. The cars are running in the region of 800bhp iirc, so I'd think even allowing for effeciency and other losses generating more than 80bhp's worth in energy should be very easy.



AcidHell2 said:
battery power cars are a gimmick, the motor industry know this. unless battery technology changes.
The future fuels, hydrogen or fuel cell(electric) won't have a need for kers.
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Surely they'd use some form of KERS anyway. It can only be a good thing can't it?
 
PinkFloyd said:
Surely they'd use some form of KERS anyway. It can only be a good thing can't it?
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A full electric can easily use KERS, simply be making the motor into a generator under braking.

However, the point being made by the manufacturers in F1 is the type of KERS system used in F1, the way it is designed, made and operates is of no use to road cars currently or in the future.
 
rypt said:
A full electric can easily use KERS, simply be making the motor into a generator under braking.

However, the point being made by the manufacturers in F1 is the type of KERS system used in F1, the way it is designed, made and operates is of no use to road cars currently or in the future.
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Ah yes good point. My brain temporarily forgot how electric motors work when I posted that :p
Yeh agreed road cars don't need a boost button as such, but I think an always on extra bit of power from recovered energy would be usefully on underpowered cars.

Although a button gives people an option instead of NOS ;)
 
AcidHell2 said:
battery power cars are a gimmick, the motor industry know this. unless battery technology changes.
The future fuels, hydrogen or fuel cell(electric) won't have a need for kers.
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I don't agree battery power is a gimmick; it's not a general solution - sure. But there are plenty of applications where it fits the bill nicely.

Efficient battery technology could use KERS alongside another power system, especially for fuel cells. Use of KERS by trains/trams is another possibility.
 
Mr Jack said:
I don't agree battery power is a gimmick; it's not a general solution - sure. But there are plenty of applications where it fits the bill nicely.

Efficient battery technology could use KERS alongside another power system, especially for fuel cells. Use of KERS by trains/trams is another possibility.
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There is a KERS system under development by Flybrid for trains. Each train car has it's own flywheel system and could, if implemented, reduce emissions and power used by 50%
 
Slightly off topic but interesting none the less.

I was looking at the regulations for the Le Mans series cars, and they are allowing hybrids from this year. Interesting that the definition of a hybrid is a car that can travel the entire length of the pit lane (400m) at a steady 60mph using only the electric motor... How far away are we to seeing motorsport where the petrol/diesel engines in the cars are never actually on in the pitlane, and the cars are solely powered by electricity? Would definately make them safer.

Just a thought. Dont think it would ever get to F1, electric motors capable of powering the car for that long are way to heavy.
 
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