Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

dowie said:
The poster was referring to the invasion of Iraq, no one has claimed that France doesn't take part in foreign interventions and frankly so what if they do? We shouldn't bomb ISIS because they might launch suicide attacks... I'm sure the people living under their rule would be happy with that brave stance.
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I'm just adding background, don't mind me. The more info the better, right ?
 
Johno please? said:
Wow, original.

lol yea genocide, attempted annextion of a neighbouring state and start a war with Iran to keep the "peace"

A man walks into a mosque in iraq and blows himself up....... FFS BUSH AND BLAIR.... :rolleyes:
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In the grand scheme of things, relatively trivial to what we have now.

The US killed 100 civilians the other day trying to bomb two snipers.
 
kitch9 said:
In the grand scheme of things, relatively trivial to what we have now.

The US killed 100 civilians the other day trying to bomb two snipers.
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Would that be where those 100 civilians were trapped inside the building, which was rigged with explosives, and the two snipers used as bait?
 
Bassmansam said:
How would this bomb have been triggered? By a phone?
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Photos appear to show a manual switch - but with some additional electronics which could just be leftovers if it was salvaged from another device to make the bomb or might have been part of a backup remote detonator nothing is really clear yet. Given the size of the battery used - which is far larger than normally required for home brew devices and the apparent relative power of the device its possible they managed to smuggle in a military grade charge - which in some ways could be good news as that would likely limit the number of other such devices out there and might mean that they only had the one - versus if they'd perfected a home brew devices of that capability and could build more (assuming a group is involved).

(The photos of the younger son with a machinegun potentially backs up them somehow managing to get the explosives in from say Libya - which in itself is a little worrying - rather than having the expertise to build the entire device from scratch in the UK).
 
enkoda said:
Would that be where those 100 civilians were trapped inside the building, which was rigged with explosives, and the two snipers used as bait?
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Does that matter? At the end of the day the US was dropping a 500Lb on a building which contained 100 civilians and said the bomb shouldnt have been powerful enough to have brought down the building and should have just killed the two snipers.

Clearly, if you are going to use 500 pound bombs round civilians then there might be some collateral damage.
 
enkoda said:
Would that be where those 100 civilians were trapped inside the building, which was rigged with explosives, and the two snipers used as bait?
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Yup, and?

Are these people dead or not?

We were outraged when Ghaddafi used an iron fist to quell uprisings and we're doing the same damn thing.

The vast majority of Ghaddafi's population lived in peace he just crushed those who opposed him hard through a network of spies and intelligence.
 
kitch9 said:
It's now clear that Ghaddafi and Hussain only did what needed to be done to keep the peace. The vast majority under their rule felt safe and relatively prosperous. Compare that to now....
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hilarious, they were somehow benevolent dictators now...forget about Saddam's use of WMDs on the marsh arabs, the massacring of the Kurds etc..

this is how Saddam consolidated power... by executing a whole bunch of potential rivals:

 
kitch9 said:
In the grand scheme of things, relatively trivial to what we have now.

The US killed 100 civilians the other day trying to bomb two snipers.
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It's a warzone unfortunately civilians are going to be killed, I take it you've never heard the term human shield?

You heard it here ladies and gents, genocide and mass graves are "trivial" compared to what we have now, imagine if Saddam had been overthrown without the use of the west, do you think it would all be flowers and rainbows? Id suggest reading "Republic of Fear" by Kanan Makiya.

 
deuse said:
Related to IS "Damon Smith jailed for 15 years for planting home-made bomb on London Tube train in October 2016"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351 It only got 15 years! should have been full life.
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I guess at least Corbyn isn't protesting his trial and attending rallies in support of him or drawing some moral equivalence between the actions of ISIS and the West...

It is a bit frustrating to see that he only got 15 years - the intent is surely more important, if he's killed dozens of people he'd not be getting out in his lifetime but because he failed he's probably going to be out in 7 or so... this is an area where we need to be tough with sentencing - not out of some angry retribution but simply because this is one of the areas where prison has a useful function in simply removing bad/risky individuals from society - once you've demonstrated intent to commit mass murder then that should be it, locked up for life, the risk is too great...
 
dowie said:
It is a bit frustrating to see that he only got 15 years - the intent is surely more important, if he's killed dozens of people he'd not be getting out in his lifetime but because he failed he's probably going to be out in 7 or so... this is an area where we need to be tough with sentencing - not out of some angry retribution but simply because this is one of the areas where prison has a useful function in simply removing bad/risky individuals from society - once you've demonstrated intent to commit mass murder then that should be it, locked up for life, the risk is too great...
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Hopefully there will be an assessment before he is released - as I was living in London at the time of the 7/7 stuff part of me thinks they should throw away the key but on the other hand there is a chance in a few years time he will grow up a bit and realise what an utterly stupid thing he did (though not sure we'd ever really know for sure).
 
Rroff said:
Hopefully there will be an assessment before he is released - as I was living in London at the time of the 7/7 stuff part of me thinks they should throw away the key but on the other hand there is a chance in a few years time he will grow up a bit and realise what an utterly stupid thing he did (though not sure we'd ever really know for sure).
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You would want to take that risk?
 
kitch9 said:
It's now clear that Ghaddafi and Hussain only did what needed to be done to keep the peace. The vast majority under their rule felt safe and relatively prosperous. Compare that to now....

Bush and Blair are to blame for all of this.
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When his own people caught Gadaffi they bayoneted him up the anus. Saddam's own people hanged him. Libya and Iraq under these two murdering tyrants and their criminal families was not the bed of roses you are making it out to be.
 
antijoke said:
You would want to take that risk?
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Edited post slightly just as you posted. I'm not sure we could ever know - a school friend of mine who tried to kill someone was very adept at telling people exactly what they wanted to hear and could easily talk it up like he'd changed but he'd still be the same person underneath.

Above&Beyond said:
When his own people caught Gadaffi they bayoneted him up the anus. Saddam's own people hanged him. Libya and Iraq under these two murdering tyrants and their criminal families was not the bed of roses you are making it out to be.
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It is curious how so many people only look at things skin deep - as long as there is the appearance of peace that is all they care about.
 
dowie said:
hilarious, they were somehow benevolent dictators now...forget about Saddam's use of WMDs on the marsh arabs, the massacring of the Kurds etc..

this is how Saddam consolidated power... by executing a whole bunch of potential rivals:

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Alas, with the religion of Islam and its multi factions all wrestling for power and they are all capable of violence this is the way it has to be done to keep a lid on things.

Above&Beyond said:
When his own people caught Gadaffi they bayoneted him up the anus. Saddam's own people hanged him. Libya and Iraq under these two murdering tyrants and their criminal families was not the bed of roses you are making it out to be.
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Ghaddafi had plenty of people who approved of him as well, same as any political structure, I'm sure there's a few people on the UK would love to shove a sharp implement up a conservative MP's ass given the chance.
 
Rroff said:
Hopefully there will be an assessment before he is released - as I was living in London at the time of the 7/7 stuff part of me thinks they should throw away the key but on the other hand there is a chance in a few years time he will grow up a bit and realise what an utterly stupid thing he did (though not sure we'd ever really know for sure).
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I think for lesser violent crimes that is a reasonable position to take in general - for attempted mass murder however I don't think it is worth it even if we're 99% sure someone has reformed

kitch9 said:
Alas, with the religion of Islam and its multi factions all wrestling for power and they are all capable of violence this is the way it has to be done to keep a lid on things.
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That isn't true - even Iran has some semblance of democracy... The actions of Saddam there were simply to consolidate power for himself and nothing else. He wasn't keeping a lid on anything by killing politicians.
 
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