Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

dowie said:
I'm not sure there is anything constructive about playing guess the unit of the scary looking military blokes - but what were you basing this comment on:

"they seem to be working alongside guys from 2 PARA quite likely from some unit within 16 Air Assault" if not the photos of other soldiers clearly from 2PARA deployed in London?
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I was hoping someone would chime in who actually knew something rather than just sniping.

As per my edit above was somewhere in the footage over the last couple of days - I'm not just basing it on that though - the Ops-core stuff isn't generally issued AFAIK outside of the parachute regiment/16 air assault and the bulk of the primary operators of the L119 are specialist units within the same.

EDIT: Hmm not found that bit but flicking back through some of the videos from about the same segment there are guys with the same equipment but dark blue/black dress underneath in the style of SO19.
 
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SS-89 said:
I do think Islam has a structural problem, the main arguments you hear against the violent parts of the scriptures is that such and such paragraph/passage supercedes this, that may be true but when you don't have a central figure who can ratify that (i.e. the pope) it's essentially a my word against yours. The Quran is the divine words of God so presumably nobody has any right to make those claims.
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No pope is needed in Islam. The quran is only 1 book, written by 1 man in his own lifetime. It is meant to be taken literally, and it is not full of symbolism or vague analogies like the Bible. It is mostly direct commands. Of course the quran contains contradictory statements, just like the Bible, but the quran itself provides the reader with a way to know what to do with the contradictions.

It is explained in the quran that if you have 2 passages that contradict each other, the one written later supersedes the one written earlier. Most Westerners are unaware that the peaceful, tolerant passages were written early in Mohammad’s prophetic career. According to the quran those passages have been abrogated by later, more violent and less tolerant passages.

So when most Westerners hear ISIS quoting violent passages from the quran, and then peaceful muslims quoting peaceful passages, they interpret that the way they would if someone was quoting the Bible or the Torah. They think to themselves, “Oh, there must be many different and contradictory passages, like there are in other religious books, so muslims can pick and choose what they like, and justify whatever actions they want to take as they have no pope”. But the quran is nothing like that. There is no picking and choosing. It says very explicitly and in no uncertain terms that a muslim must not alter or ignore any part of its very clear and direct message, or they will burn in a fiery torment forever.
 
SS-89 said:
I do think Islam has a structural problem, the main arguments you hear against the violent parts of the scriptures is that such and such paragraph/passage supercedes this, that may be true but when you don't have a central figure who can ratify that (i.e. the pope) it's essentially a my word against yours. The Quran is the divine words of God so presumably nobody has any right to make those claims.

The majority of Muslims are clearly not in the violent end of the spectrum (1.8 billion muslims globally would result in a lot more terrorists if that wasn't the case) but clearly the ability to cherry pick and interpret the religion in a manner that suits their agenda has allowed ISIS etc. to thrive.

How do you fight that ideology without a reform of the religion itself? I don't think it's possible so I don't see a viable solution aside from tighter restrictions on those with links to terrorist groups and maybe revoking citizenship for those that go to fight for such groups. My fiance and her family are muslim (moderates) and she openly admits those saying this isn't an issue of Islam itself is both misguided and naive.

Apathy is a real issue and the cynic in me is slowly veering towards that. I don't think humans are capable of global peace, too much greed for power/wealth/control.
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Your fiancee is a sensible lady. I've posted on here before about how the gf is a teacher and taught a unit on islam. She wrote to the Muslim council of Britain who generously sent her quite a few copies of the Qur'an. What was fantastic was even they acknowledged in their reply that various sections were...questionable and she should avoid discussing them with her students. So if even they realise there's an issue with the holy text which is taken as being utterly true by so many...theres a bloody issue!
I actually recall them being quite humorous in their responses.
 
Rroff said:
I was hoping someone would chime in who actually knew something rather than just sniping.

As per my edit above was somewhere in the footage over the last couple of days - I'm not just basing it on that though - the Ops-core stuff isn't generally issued AFAIK outside of the parachute regiment/16 air assault and the bulk of the primary operators of the L119 are specialist units within the same.

EDIT: Hmm not found that bit but flicking back through some of the videos from about the same segment there are guys with the same equipment but dark blue/black dress underneath in the style of SO19.
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I wasn't 'sniping' I simply asked you a question. Anyway I'll play...

I suspect the Met Police SFOs pictured are perfectly capable of kicking down a door themselves. There might be some subject matter experts from UKSF working with them, there might (more likely) also be some technical support from non-SF people who are attached to UKSF. i.e. there could be suicide vests/IEDs/bomb making equipment in that flat and the technical experts related to that, who might ordinarily be attached to UKSF, are perhaps assisting the Met Police.
 
dowie said:
I wasn't 'sniping' I simply asked you a question. Anyway I'll play...
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Wasn't accusing you of sniping - 1-2 others were grumbling about armchair experts. Personally I just find it somewhat interesting (ok a bit sad but I've put together a BF4 recon setup for airsoft, etc.) rather than trying to look like an expert as they seem to perceive.
 
L119 is used by a few units, close protection, Pathfinders, one of the RM commandos as well?
could be paras (lots were used for op olympics, some had special kit / unmarked cars etc)
I wouldnt bother trying to guess, special gear doesnt equals SAS, could be SFSG, SBS etc
Could even be some SF EOD guy
I mean it could be any of them but I dont think you could guess from the photo
 
Rroff said:
I was hoping someone would chime in who actually knew something rather than just sniping.

As per my edit above was somewhere in the footage over the last couple of days - I'm not just basing it on that though - the Ops-core stuff isn't generally issued AFAIK outside of the parachute regiment/16 air assault and the bulk of the primary operators of the L119 are specialist units within the same.

EDIT: Hmm not found that bit but flicking back through some of the videos from about the same segment there are guys with the same equipment but dark blue/black dress underneath in the style of SO19.
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Name, rank and number, that is all you get chum. :p
 
Rroff said:
Interesting setup with C8/L119 variant w/ what is probably Magpul furniture, Ops-core and the QA config - hardly regular army issue :D - as they seem to be working alongside guys from 2 PARA quite likely from some unit within 16 Air Assault. (Again I'm no expert but no one else is saying anything other than SAS).
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I'd love to tell you. I just can't :)

And SO19 hasn't existed as a unit for a looonnng time
 
gettothechopper said:
Could even be some SF EOD guy
I mean it could be any of them but I dont think you could guess from the photo
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I think you can guess from the context though... i.e. the police don't need help kicking a door down however they might need help with explosives, suicide vests etc.. i..e the people who specialise in search and the people who specialise in EOD might be useful there. They're not SF per say but some of them are attached to and support SF on operations.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
I know there is a picture and stuff but i cant help but think we are veering off topic and heading toward the military hard-on thread
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We could go back to Muslim bashing as that seems to be the only other topic people want to discuss about a situation that involved far more.
 
What about international reactions to the incident?

Has there been any new official statements about the US media releasing info or anything beyond condolences and vague promises of retribution from foreign politicians?
 
Tefal said:
Well the Dublin agreement means we should have 0 claims as they are meant to be processed in the first European country.
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And how do you prove they came through that country?

Should we not take our fair share or should we just dump them all on Greece and Italy?
 
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