May have bitten off more than I can chew...MR2 Winter project

[Gamefreak501]

Hey everyone,

First of all, my apologies for not posting on OcUK for such a long time; I have been busy with my Biology undergraduate degree and life in general! Fortunately the end is nigh with my third & final year of university starting this week. Also, this is a long post!!

Anyway, moving on to what this thread is about, I recently acquired an MR2 MK2 GT-T Bar from a family friend who needed it gone, so I happily cleared my garage for it. I am still waiting for the V5 to arrive and my SORN (which I sent at the same time) to also be confirmed. I intend to keep it as standard as possible, well at least initially

Here are some not so good photos:

I don't know a great deal about this car but I believe the snorkel scoops and rear spoiler are not standard. It is naturally aspirated with 15" alloys and leather seat trim and has done 163,000 miles on the original 3S-GE Yamaha modified engine. It has been off the road for at least three years so it will need to be fully recommissioned. But the engine does run without misfiring or knocking, which is a great start

Here is a list of what needs doing to the car before I can recommission it and put it in for an MOT:

• N/S outer sill - the O/S outer sill might also be bad, but I haven't been able to stick my finger through it!
• Pop up headlights - I suspect the motors are seized, or the fuses or relays are bad so I need to check the fuses and relays, check the circuit and then take the motors apart and replace if necessary.
• Incomplete indicator/sidelight units on the front - I will probably replace the pair so they match with a clear crystal pair.
• Alternator and drive belt - a common problem on the MK2s, the alternator is seized and the car arrived with no drive belt on it, it probably snapped previously, so I will look at rebuilding the alternator and getting a new drive belt.
• Dashboard back lights are not all working, if it's anything like the other cars I have owned, a tap or new can-bus type bulbs usually gets the lights working.
• New brake fluid, pads and discs. The calipers will likely need freeing up/rebuilding to solve potential binding issues, there were previous advisories on the brake discs being worn and calipers binding, so I'll check these over before I replace the discs and rebuild the calipers.
• Full Service, including gearbox and engine oil, coolant, filters, iridium spark plugs and wiper blades, I can't tell how old the oil is, but apparently 10w40 to 10w60 fully synthetic is the recommended weight.
• New brake hoses, as I don't know how well the original ones might hold out.
• New tyres all round - there was an advisory a few years back about at least one of the tyres being worn close to the legal limit, but I can look over them to see how bad they are and check their date stamps.
• Battery - the original battery has not been fully charged for at least three years, so there is probably internal plate damage. I did a full slow charge and capacity check and the lights did stay on for a few hours, but it's probably not a good idea to put an old / worn battery on a newly rebuilt alternator. I will do a full slow charge again to see how it holds once the alternator is rebuilt and drive belt is replaced.
• Horn - this wasn't working when I tested it, so it could be the fuse or the steering wheel switch.
• Upper/Lower Torsion bar - there was an advisory on one of the upper torsion bars, some years back, so I will probably replace the whole lot if the corrosion can't be cleared off with a wire brush and some elbow grease.
• Rear bonnet and front trunk - these aren't closing properly so I will need to find the correct clips/parts to get these closing properly.
• Coil Spring replacement - there was an advisory recently about one coil spring being corroded, so I will look at all of them and replace them. Not looking to lower the vehicle yet, just want it roadworthy so I can enjoy it

This just scratches the surface, I suspect a whole lot more work will need to be done to the vehicle once I find out what the other issues are!

So far, I have cleared off all the algae/moss on the body work and got both windscreen wipers working. I can't do a lot more to the vehicle until I get the charging circuit sorted but it is cheaper to get the alternator rebuilt than to buy a new one, plus the rebuild will carry some sort of guarantee. I still haven't managed to get the alternator out but I am getting there!

After that, I will look at the electrical system and any other important things for the MOT as that will give me a true picture of what the car needs to be roadworthy once again . I haven't booked the MOT yet, but MOT preparation always takes longer and costs more than expected ha ha. I will try to get it MOT ready by November or December. Hopefully I can enjoy it by February, in time for my birthday haha

Here goes something...

 

[sovietspybob]

Looks interesting, there's always a lot of work getting something back on the road, i'll be doing the same (for the 2nd time on the same car ) next year and it's always a bit of a game.

I guess these are going up in value nicely now which should make the effort worth while.

Would you think of doing anything else to it long term like a turbo or V6 conversion?

 

[rodenal]

I still have a great deal of love for a mk2 Mr2, albeit they are mostly rust buckets and worth very little now - some potentially helpful info below:

• N/S outer sill - There will be plenty of rust on a UK car, fix what is neccesary but be prepared to have the Sill painted

• Pop up headlights - motors broke on mine, from memory really cheap to source and replace.

• Incomplete indicator/sidelight units on the front - These get broken quite a lot, clear pair will be cheap

• Alternator and drive belt - make absolutely sure you get a non turbo alternator as the turbo has a very slightly larger unit that you'll never get in the space (if working from the top). Make sure you have lots of UJ's, extensions of different sizes and lots and lots of patience.

• Dashboard back lights are not all working. Bulbs at a guess

• New brake fluid, pads and discs. As you've mentioned at the very least clean up the calipers.

• New brake hoses - I would just inspect then take it from there.

• New tyres all round - consider the sizes if the car is still on it's originals as there is very little choice available on the staggered 15's. It could potentially be better to change the wheels

• Battery -

• Horn

• Upper/Lower Torsion bar- just inspect / clean up as per your post

• Rear bonnet and front trunk - shoudl be easy

• Coil Spring replacement - cheap

 

[geekman]

^ great advice there. I had 2 MR2s: a N/A and a turbo and loved both of them. Be sure to check for rust inside the wheel arch, under the arch liner. My first MR2 had a fist sized hole in between the boot and the drivers side inner wheel arch.

 

[ci_newman]

I've got a great deal of love for the MK2 MR2 too, I owned one (an N/A and a Tubby) around 12 years ago. That particular car looks like a rev5 anniversary edition (hence the 2-tone paint) and that spoiler was actually standard IIRC, along with the alloys. The bonnet scoop (and the bonnet itself) are not standard though.

The 3S-GT hasn't aged well though. It's fairly underpowered for the weight of the car compared to it's rivals. It still has enough to have some fun though

Good luck, but dont expect to make any profit out of your work! They dont demand much of a premium these days, and they rust like hell.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thank you very much for all your replies and all your helpful pieces of advice

Sovietspybob - I would consider an engine conversion if this engine goes pop - I am not sure how long this particular engine has left, but apparently these engines can last some 200 to 300k miles! Unfortunately, whether it's a Triumph/British Leyland or an older (15+ years) GM or Japanese lump, most of the old engines aren't worth rebuilding because machine time spent skimming heads, over-boring, fitting over-sized pistons, piston rings and perhaps making changes to con-rods as well as camshaft and crankshaft profiles is rarely economic, as it can run in to four figures unless you're making some sort of drag strip or race spec car! I'm hoping this engine lasts, but a modern V6 will probably fit, I have seen Honda engines put in to these as well!!

Rodenal - I am secretly hoping I don't find extensive tin worm, but the trouble is, the unseen-inside is usually crusty by the time you've poked a gloved finger through an outer sill (which is exactly what happened when I worked my way around the sills!). I have had a cursory look online at pop-up motors and they do seem widely available - hopefully I can easily free up these ones, but replacements at least, are easy to come by. On the alternator side of things, the pivot bolts and bottom bolt are all out, but there is this large C-shape bracket which looks like is bolted to the engine with some side bolts and two nasty and hard to access bolts underneath the timing cover and timing belt casting. I am hoping that some pry bars will free it off, as I have managed to pivot it all the way to the chassis rail/sub frame - perhaps a turbo one was put in at some point in it's life On the tyres front, I am considering putting 225/50/15 all the way round as I probably won't need staggered sizes - but I am not sure if the alloys are different sizes as I haven't checked the tyre sizes yet. The other option is to find four alloys that match the PCD, stud pattern and offset but I would want to get these as cheap as possible.

Geekman - I haven't dare check around the wheel arches!! The floor pans around to the sill lip seems to be fine, but the wheel arches might give me a nasty surprise I'll have a look properly at the wheel arches as I'm going to be underneath with that alternator and probably putting new under-seal on the treated parts, as I have loads of Bilt Hamber left still and wire-brushing any other rust I find and under-sealing appropriately.

Ci Newman - I would never have guessed it was a rev 5 - I'm very ignorant of the MR2 at the moment as I have never owned any in my life! I wonder what else is non-standard on the vehicle, I guess I will find out as I dig deeper into what it has and hasn't got. I am not sure if it is 167 bhp or less than this, as it isn't turbo charged - I'm guessing around 120-140 BHP but I don't know what power it had to begin with and what power it has lost with age - but if there is still fun to be had with it, I'm happy! You're right about the rust issue - I have had two Triumph Spitfires which I regret getting rid of and rust was a big problem on those. I am trying to recommission it on a tight budget because I am a full time student and I might keep it for a long time as I knew the late previous owner and his family well - but for the very little I got it for, I don't really have a fixed budget in mind (watch me eat my words haha).

I am hoping I'll have some free time this coming weekend to finally get the seized alternator out and have a look at how extensively things like brake hoses and suspension parts need replacing, I am fully expecting a load of nasty surprises, but it's all part of the fun of putting a car back on the road! It will probably end up being a fun / Sunday car - I don't know if I would bother tracking it, but that depends on where I go with modifications. If I was looking at a track car now, I would probably get an MX5 or Lotus Elise - my RX8 handled so well on the track, but not competitively - but then again, I'm no race driver!!

 

[Puppetmaster]

Welcome to the club. Owned my Rev 4 for 6 1/2 years and still enioy driving it - they are great fun

The V6 from a Toyota Camry is a common conversion for the MR2. Engines tend to be pretty reliable as long as they don't run low on oil.

Regarding rust, if you remove the rear interior panels, inside of the body work exists some foam (each side). I believe these tend to contribute to the rusting from the inside out, as they absorb moisture. If you are doing quite a bit of work, might be worth removing the trim and removing them if they have not been removed already. I spent £600 a few months getting the sills fixed on mine. I was in two minds about whether to fix it, but after checking online to find there are not that many left around (at least ones that are not suffering major rust issues) I decided to get it fixed. I still really enjoy driving the car and I'm not sure I would have found something easily to replace without spending lots of £££

If you can manage to fix the major issues (mainly rust and pipes from hell) then they can retain value and even go up, as they are becoming much rarer these day

Majority of the NA's have 160 - 170 BHP, think it was only an 8V that didn't. Turbos are around 230 I think. Sure the power of them isn't amazing compared to modern vehicles, but they drive really well and are awesome in the twisties

For reference the pipes from hell are the pipes that run from the rear of the car to the front. They have a common issue where the pipe begins to leak above the fuel tank, requires a lot of work to get to them (inc fuel tank removing). Later MR2s suffered less form it but its my understand they all go eventually. I had mine fixed by running radiator hose to bypass them.

 

[The Running Man]

Imo waste of time and money on an old NA

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thanks for your replies Puppetmaster & The Running Man!

Puppetmaster - I'm going to assume you own a turbo charged Rev 4? I have read about the Camry V6 conversion - seems fairly straightforward actually - definitely an option if I decide on it! I might have a look at the interior panels and foam parts on Friday - is it a case of removing the trim inside the rear of the vehicle and the external and rear wheel linings? Sorry I have no idea I'm afraid! I got given print offs of a manual but it's mainly about the engine and electrical systems so I should print the rest off. It makes sense for foam to actually contribute to rust and I would like to avoid big jobs if I can but £600 isn't too bad for a pair of sills. I actually read about the pipes from hell - does seem to be a big and nasty job but I have seen the hose kit on the MR2-Ben web site to do the job as I like to do a lot of preventative work to cars.

The Running Man - You do raise a very valid point - I am not sure how far I am willing to go with a budget and with keeping the MR2; but I keep getting reminded of the two Triumph Spitfires and the RX8 I got rid of and later regretting...I don't know what sort of value I can put on the MR2 unfortunately and I will probably keep revisiting your comment and running it round my head!

At the moment, the state of play looks like getting the alternator out and getting it rebuilt this coming Friday. I don't think it's a good idea to try to free it up myself because that is probably like putting a plaster on it until the next failure. There is an auto-electrician near me who can rebuild an alternator in 2-3 hours and I have been quoted under a hundred pounds for this work to be completed. Then I can put a new belt on with a fully charged battery and start checking everywhere for circuit issues so I can get all the electrics working, from an electrics standpoint, I only faffed with Triumph Spitfire electrics and Corsa B electrics, but I have wiring diagrams and I am hoping to have all the electrical gremlins sorted by mid to late October.

From the body work side of things, whilst I have only found the one hole in it, I might try my hand at some test welding for several hours over a few weeks on some scrap metal to see if it's something I am confident doing myself especially for patches - whole panels I would always leave to a professional as they have all the jigs, magnets etc.

I don't mind a slightly messy job as long as I can clean it up with an angle grinder and filler, if it's not in view and it's strong because I am keeping to a strict budget, but that lot is probably looking at a November to December finish. I am okay at prepping paint work; but again, the car doesn't have to be pretty, just pass it's MoT, the cosmetic stuff can come once I can fully appreciate the extent of the work required and the sort of timescale and money I have to spend.

 

[GhostWKD]

Fun project but only if you don't mind putting more into it than you could probably buy a good example for...

Got a Turbo engine cover and engine bay strut X brace fitted as well by the looks of it (from memory both of these weren't on the NAs)

I had 1 NA Rev3 MR2 and 3 Rev1/2 Turbos, my NA was good but the 3 turbos I regretted buying. 2 broke down before even making it home.

 

[The Running Man]

I owned an mr2 turbo rev3 and drove it as a daily for 3 years, summer and winter so I know a bit about these cars.

I only lost the car because someone crashed into me writing it off.

Is it honestly worth doing all that work on a 150k like car with an na? Honestly no.

Would it be worth it on a turbo? Borderline.

Better off buying a nice one to begin with.

Imo

Did I love my car and spend 3 hours washing it every weekend? Yes

Did I get cry when I lost it? Not telling you...

 

[hyperseven]

There is a 1991 MR2 Turbo Wheeler Dealers ep that's just been released.

 

[Nasher]

Worth doing, these cars are becoming classics

 

[rodenal]

Worth doing, these cars are becoming classics

Tbh it won't be financially worth it at all, a n/a with high miles, rot and other issues is a car to fix only at low to moderate expense then enjoy for a while. It will never be worth very much

Assuming the rot isn't too bad I can still see why you'd want to get it running well again on a budget, but more as a project than anything.

As per my previous post most things are pretty simple and cheap to sort on them so I can imagine worse ways to spend some time.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Many thanks for all your replies

GhostWKD - I have seen some lovely MR2s for sale - even the MK1s are still around the £4k to £5k mark but my MR2 would never be worth that sort of money - maybe £1000-1500 at best due to mileage - I don't know what was modified on it, but I won't go to any extra expense to reverse any things it already has done to it - it's not financially viable, but if I can keep the project to a budget, I might feel less bad about the value vs restoration costs! It's a shame your turbo MR2s went the way they did, I will probably never experience the thrill of 200+ horsepower on an MR2 as I'll likely keep this to NA spec.

The Running Man - Sorry to hear about someone crashing into your car I had that happen to my Escort mk5 and my Corsa B and I ended up having to think pragmatically about the cost of fixing a crash damaged car through the insurance after excess costs come into it versus the money it might cost me throughout my ownership and ended up getting rid of them.

I will probably be scaling back on the sort of work I do to the MR2 to be honest and getting an MOT is the only way I can determine what is lurking, that's my main aim - get the electrics done and finally have the Clifford alarm system working again (because it might have to live on the road if I lose the garage) and doing what I can to it to get it to pass - I have friends who can give me welding hints and the paint I will probably do myself. The car was given to me free, so it has that going for it, taking off the cost to get the V5 and the jerry can of petrol I put in it to test the battery and engine, so that keeps me positive about it...I just need to also be practical about the cost of the work and how much it accumulates.

Hy.perseven - I saw an MR2 MK1 episode of Wheeler Dealers but not a MK2 - I will have to have a look at that one - thanks for the heads up

Nasher - Thanks for your comment - I will try my best with a limited budget.

Rodenal - Thanks for your comment - the rot is a concern and hopefully, that small hole that I will be able to patch up is the only thing that needs doing to it, if it is, then I might have a car I can enjoy for a little longer knowing that if it gets damaged or stolen or anything it will be fairly cheap to replace, perhaps with something a bit more modern. Over a longer period of ownership, the cost of a car project never really comes into it, the danger is spending too much on it too soon which I am keeping an eye on.

Progress Report

I managed to make some progress today!!

I was able to use a Prybar to work the alternator casting off the bracket casting:

(1)

After this, I used a long pry bar to push the inlet manifold away from the bonnet locking mechanism which gave me a few mm. A friend did the prybar again for me and I got it up another cm or so then I did myself and got it off the rest of the way, meaning I got the whole thing out yay!

(2)

Only thing is left is to slow charge the battery:

(3)

I can get the alternator rebuilt for £95 which I will get done tomorrow. A belt will be something like £9 if that and that should get my engine going.

I'm quite positive about this, the charger isn't quite man enough for 2L but the alternator can hopefully do the rest if it is missing out on some charge. Next on the list will be to order new lights and start sorting out all the electrics.

 

[hyperseven]

defo a Mk2.

 

[Gamefreak501]

defo a Mk2.

I wonder if it is turbo-charged...

 

[hyperseven]

I wonder if it is turbo-charged...

It is #12, not watched it yet just flicked through. Looks like they rebuild the turbo and improve the suspension.

 

[Gamefreak501]

It is #12, not watched it yet just flicked through. Looks like they rebuild the turbo and improve the suspension.

I wonder if I can get wheeler dealers here haha

Definitely worth watching!!

 

[Gamefreak501]

Hy.perseven - cheers for putting up that price list from Wheeler Dealers - not terribly bad for part costs - it was only the coil-over conversion and the new wheels which seemed to push up the price of the restoration dramatically.

*Update*

So, after seeing the state of my alternator, I decided a replacement was the best option for it; the case had cracks in it and the winding looked really bad all round it, I couldn't even turn the pulley or the stator or get the case itself freed up to explore what else was wrong with it.

Additionally, I also replaced the battery as it is not holding a great charge and the drive belt - which I had to get twice, I accidentally ordered an air conditioning one which was too long for my little NA non-air con MR2!

Here is a picture of the new alternator in:

So far so good, there was an engine misfire but I accidentally knocked the tiny (PCV?) pipe that goes from the top of the engine to the diagnostic plug, with that connected in, the misfire had gone.

I'm picking up 5 litres of Shell Helix H7 10w40 and a new oil filter tomorrow. The oil service will probably get done over the weekend.

The Spark plugs appear to be okay - they're a bit black with carbon, but I expect that is the idling and the misfiring and the lack of any real miles - physically, there appears to be nothing wrong with them. I can't tell if they're iridium or not, but I will check for a part number at some point. Supposedly iridium is the best option for the MR2. I didn't notice any leaking coming from the pipes of hell or anywhere else on the car when I left it idling, which is a good sign.

Also, I got to finally test all my electrics without my engine conking out:

All these electrical bits are working:

Door Mirrors
Windows
Aerial
Radio
Right hand rear light
Front Fog Lights
Electrical Fan
Front headlamps
Windscreen wipers & Washers
Left indicator
Hazard Switch
Heater/Blower
Windscreen Heater
Rear Window Demister
Window lock switch
Door lock Switch

These electrical bits aren't working:

Right hand indicator (front, side, hazard and telltale)
Front pop-up Motors
Left hand rear light
Rear registration plate light
Horn

But the alarm itself is now armed and the car is movable so I can get my motorbike in and out of the garage and the battery charging when the engine runs, I didn't see it drop below 14-15 volts on the voltmeter clock.

From the tyres/wheels perspective, I haven't spotted anything glaringly bad about the tread depth or wear yet, but they are standard sizes - 195/55/15 front and 225/50/15 rear so the standard wheels are on there still..is it worth replacing the wheels? Hmm, presently probably not. I will probably stick with the original wheels but could change my mind at a later date.