Soldato
Maybe its direct x that is holding pc's back.
- Thread starter dmxdex2020
- Start date
Soldato
Programming low level rather than using a CLI would take forever, and have varying results on different hardware. I understand what the guy is saying, but developers have a hard time enough as it is, and common language APIs like OpenGL and Direct3D are a massive help.
It's akin to telling someone to write an application in machine code, when they could write it in .NET about ten-bazillion times faster - sure, it may not be as efficient, but it'll be more compatible, faster to develop, easier to develop, and easier to make cross-platform.
It's akin to telling someone to write an application in machine code, when they could write it in .NET about ten-bazillion times faster - sure, it may not be as efficient, but it'll be more compatible, faster to develop, easier to develop, and easier to make cross-platform.
Man of Honour
Yeah..it's a pretty dumb idea all in all.
Only way it would work is with single spec hardware and a custom OS which is technically a games console rather than a PC...
To make this happen AMD would need to release a bleeding edge games console which most people couldn't afford and most developers would snub it because they can knock a game up in less than 3mths on PC/Xbox.
To make this happen AMD would need to release a bleeding edge games console which most people couldn't afford and most developers would snub it because they can knock a game up in less than 3mths on PC/Xbox.
I agree with the premise, in that DirectX is holding things back - but because of Microsoft's market position, not the technical aspects.
Like it doesn't have problems already?
Wait, he's going DirectX for his projects now?
What happened to OpenGL?
Like it doesn't have problems already?
Wait, he's going DirectX for his projects now?
What happened to OpenGL?
Doesn't seem very feasible, and I doubt any developer without the most brilliant of programmers would be willing to take it up.
Plus as the article points out, what you're competing with is a fixed hardware machine which now has quite a few years worth of experience on the dev's books who are working with it. PCs don't have that luxury, the hardware will go through a generation just from the time you begin to the time of release, having several years worth of optimizations coming together from the ground up isn't ever going to happen on the PC, with or without an API.
Plus as the article points out, what you're competing with is a fixed hardware machine which now has quite a few years worth of experience on the dev's books who are working with it. PCs don't have that luxury, the hardware will go through a generation just from the time you begin to the time of release, having several years worth of optimizations coming together from the ground up isn't ever going to happen on the PC, with or without an API.
Most devs don't think it's worth the extra effort to specialise and improve the pc versions of their games so they definitely won't want to get into low level optimisations because it just won't be worth the time and money.
Soldato
Wait, he's going DirectX for his projects now?
What happened to OpenGL?
Not quite. He's still sticking with OGL atm.
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/john-carmack-finally-prefers-directx-to-opengl-20110311/
Caporegime
They compared Nvidia shaders to ATI shaders = Fail from the get go.
With that definition the 5870 is the fastest single GPU around.
With that definition the 5870 is the fastest single GPU around.
Not even gonna honey coat it - what a load of crap (granted he does acknowledge the innovation issues) - the problems are the lack of innovation and publishers putting the squeeze on generally for financial reasons or not understanding the technical side of it... nothing wrong with APIs theres plenty of leg room with most to get creative and do things way beyond what they were originally intended and its no fun re-inventing the wheel every time you want to use some standard functionality.
It doesn't help that a lot of programmers/developers these days are career ones, they've been taught certain paths and are very "clever" at those paths but lack the ability to approach a problem for themselves and develop a solution from the ground up themselves... you could potentially argue the API is the problem here (not encouraging programmers to think for themselves) but really it isn't.
It doesn't help that a lot of programmers/developers these days are career ones, they've been taught certain paths and are very "clever" at those paths but lack the ability to approach a problem for themselves and develop a solution from the ground up themselves... you could potentially argue the API is the problem here (not encouraging programmers to think for themselves) but really it isn't.
A bit of a lame flamebait exercise by AMD there!
He's right for sure, but it's not a new argument because it's always going to be "better" to code straight for hardware rather than use an API.
If you look at DX11 with CUDA/OpenCL/DirectCompute/GPGPU you can do loads of super clever stuff using the GPU. Yet even "cutting edge" games companies can't even be bothered releasing games that support DX11 on launch.
Honestly what company would bother to develop a cutting edge game using bare metal code for the GTX 580 and 6970 generation cards when they can just put out junk like CoD:MW2 or DA2 every few months?
He's right for sure, but it's not a new argument because it's always going to be "better" to code straight for hardware rather than use an API.
If you look at DX11 with CUDA/OpenCL/DirectCompute/GPGPU you can do loads of super clever stuff using the GPU. Yet even "cutting edge" games companies can't even be bothered releasing games that support DX11 on launch.
Honestly what company would bother to develop a cutting edge game using bare metal code for the GTX 580 and 6970 generation cards when they can just put out junk like CoD:MW2 or DA2 every few months?
Their is no point in getting a pc as powerfull as that anymore. Games that are made an average pc can max them out easily.
I would be very happy if ATI/AMD go away & do their own thing with OpenGL only as lets face it they do not contribute much to PC games development like Nvidia do 
Lost PLanet2 on DX11 Nvidia hardware does look a lot better than the console version maybe not 10 times better but a lot better
Lost PLanet2 on DX11 Nvidia hardware does look a lot better than the console version maybe not 10 times better but a lot better
DirectX is just a tool and no body has to use it.
It makes things far simpler though. Using API's is a lot easier than trying to make something compatible with every hardware configuration out there. The reason why games look slightly better on the PC's is just pure and simple. It's lazy programmers who just churn the stuff out.
Crysis 1 showed what games could look like if they were developed for the PC rather than being a console port. There are still some stunning looking games out there (Lord of the Rings Online, etc.) made specifically for the PC but they are few and far between. Plus most developers are developing in DX9 as this has the biggest user base. When developers pull there finger out and move on to develop in DX11 then, I'm sure there will be stunning games out there that take advantage of the higher end hardware.
M.
It makes things far simpler though. Using API's is a lot easier than trying to make something compatible with every hardware configuration out there. The reason why games look slightly better on the PC's is just pure and simple. It's lazy programmers who just churn the stuff out.
Crysis 1 showed what games could look like if they were developed for the PC rather than being a console port. There are still some stunning looking games out there (Lord of the Rings Online, etc.) made specifically for the PC but they are few and far between. Plus most developers are developing in DX9 as this has the biggest user base. When developers pull there finger out and move on to develop in DX11 then, I'm sure there will be stunning games out there that take advantage of the higher end hardware.
M.
One thing perhaps worthy of mention is that when DX came to the fore there were many more 'players' (or wannabe players) in the gaming video card market. Back then you had Nvidia, ATI, 3dfx, Matrox, S3, PowerVR etc etc. So it made sense to go with an API like D3D rather than coding for each card.
Nowadays however there are only two gfx card makers worthy of note, so you could make a case for bringing back proprietary APIs like Glide. Although, I'd imagine Intel would have something to say about that, and the undoubtedly carry a lot of clout with Microsoft.
Nowadays however there are only two gfx card makers worthy of note, so you could make a case for bringing back proprietary APIs like Glide. Although, I'd imagine Intel would have something to say about that, and the undoubtedly carry a lot of clout with Microsoft.
