maybe that's not your girlfriend calling...

bitslice · 30 Dec 2006 at 22:19

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/4239e29e-02f2-11da-84e5-00000e2511c8.html

"mobile telephone operators can ..... remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call, giving security services the perfect bugging device. "

I knew about the tracking people via triangulation thing, but I thought using a phone as a remote microphone was still under the control of the user ?

if you didn't vote for Blair, you'd better remove your phone battery.

(sorry if this is a bit old, I only just noticed)
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Massive Attack · 30 Dec 2006 at 22:25

lmao, freaky

Slime101 · 30 Dec 2006 at 23:12

Urban myth.

Bolerus · 30 Dec 2006 at 23:25

that woudl be breaking all sorts of laws you could sue the supplier for every penny they had

nice way to get your new upgrade though

Dolph · 30 Dec 2006 at 23:32

Bolerus said:
that woudl be breaking all sorts of laws you could sue the supplier for every penny they had

Actually, if the state authorised it, it wouldn't be breaking any laws at all.

It is an urban myth though.

oap · 31 Dec 2006 at 13:32

Dolph said:
Actually, if the state authorised it, it wouldn't be breaking any laws at all.

It is an urban myth though.

That it has happened may be a myth, but that the technology is readily available is certainly not!

Dolph · 31 Dec 2006 at 16:19

oap said:
That it has happened may be a myth, but that the technology is readily available is certainly not!

With most handsets it is a myth, most handsets do not have the ability to install and run additional software that can access phone features in that way. The only exception that is some of the smartphones, but they won't allow you to secretly remotely install a program, it requires confirmation by the user. Nor can the phone communicate with the outside world secretly.

B@Th*nG · 31 Dec 2006 at 19:00

oap said:
That it has happened may be a myth, but that the technology is readily available is certainly not!

well with an attitude like that we're all doomed really aren't we?

B@Th*nG

bitslice · 1 Jan 2007 at 00:17

Slime101 said:
Urban myth.

where are you all getting this "urban myth" idea from ???

OK
a second site reporting this technique being used in another case...
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6140191.html

(new) phones can be updated over the air...
http://www.redbend.com/solutions/Mobile-Phone-Software.asp
I've had updates to my old phone, I didn't have to do or confirm anything, it just happened...

If a phone update is possible, (and there is no reason why it would require user intervention), then the phone can be made to do anything.

an American Government department report
http://www.wasc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/cellular.htm#Cellular Phones

"A cellular telephone can be turned into a microphone and transmitter for the purpose of listening to conversations in the vicinity of the phone. This is done by transmitting to the cell phone a maintenance command on the control channel. This command places the cellular telephone in the "diagnostic mode." When this is done, conversations in the immediate area of the telephone can be monitored over the voice channel"

and a second type of attack that remotely enables a microphone...
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,64463,00.html

so yes the technology is here to do this,
and yes it looks like it is in use,
but no, it's not an urban myth.

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oap · 1 Jan 2007 at 00:37

B@Th*nG said:
well with an attitude like that we're all doomed really aren't we?

B@Th*nG

with an attitude like yours then yes we probably are doomed tbh

clv101 · 1 Jan 2007 at 00:42

bitslice said:
"mobile telephone operators can ..... remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call, giving security services the perfect bugging device. "

As far as I know it's a load of rubbish. The only thing that will convince me otherwise is if anyone can find the specification covering this feature. It'll be in one of the "25" series I expect. They are here:

ftp://ftp.3gpp.org/specs/2006-12/Rel-4/25_series/

bitslice · 1 Jan 2007 at 00:48

^^
http://news.com.com/FBI+taps+cell+p...g+tool/2100-1029_3-6140191.html?tag=nefd.lede

"Nextel and Samsung handsets and the Motorola Razr are especially vulnerable to software downloads that activate their microphones, said James Atkinson, a counter-surveillance consultant who has worked closely with government agencies. "They can be remotely accessed and made to transmit room audio all the time," he said. "You can do that without having physical access to the phone."

I can't authenticate this, but BAE apparently have a bit of ($250K) kit that can be used to turn on the microphone of any CDMA or GSM phone.

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VIRII · 1 Jan 2007 at 11:09

On the subject of odd uses for mobilephones I have noticed several sites claiming to be able to find the name and address of the mobile phone owner from the phone number.
I would have thought this was illegal / in breach of the data protection act and so on.
These sites seem to be US based but claim to be able to access UK mobile phone records and owner data. Is this actually true?

mrgubby · 1 Jan 2007 at 17:11

I worked for a comapny that designed mobile phones . The basic GSM/CDMA protocol stack would be bought from companies like TTP & Qualcom but the actual 'phone' software was completely down to us. There were quite a few 'back doors' to allow testing etc that could be exploited if the powers that be wanted.

I've never heard of it being done but it would be possible , It would require the Goverment to work with the phone manufacturer - base station manufacturer and the Telephone service provider .

PrOdiGy1 · 1 Jan 2007 at 17:12

I bet CTU Los Angeles can do it

Massive Attack · 1 Jan 2007 at 17:20

PrOdiGy1 said:
I bet CTU Los Angeles can do it

uve been watching to much 24 m8

PrOdiGy1 · 1 Jan 2007 at 17:22

Massive Attack said:
uve been watching to much 24 m8

lol i got seasons 1-5 for cheap off an auction site in the middle of november. nearly finished season 4

bitslice · 1 Jan 2007 at 17:45

VIRII said:
find the name and address of the mobile phone owner from the phone number.

In the US this seems to be published information,
you can even type the number into google and get some info.
There are various directories that list even more info on people.
(The US appears to be a stalkers heaven)

there was a US scam a while back where you could call the phone company, pretend to be joe blogs, and get a list of who he had been dialing.

There are landline reverse directories that cover the UK.
I'd imagine doing the same for UK mobiles would involve searching tele-marketing databases, or having access to ripped databases of suscribers ?

or maybe just ringing the number, saying "hi, you've won a free car, what's your postcode and house number"

---
btw.
I'm still waiting for those saying the OP is an "urban myth" to prove it,
I've provided some information as to why I think it is true, and you guys just post and run.... :-/

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VIRII · 1 Jan 2007 at 19:51

bitslice said:
There are landline reverse directories that cover the UK.
I'd imagine doing the same for UK mobiles would involve searching tele-marketing databases, or having access to ripped databases of suscribers ?

or maybe just ringing the number, saying "hi, you've won a free car, what's your postcode and house number"

.

The sites that seem to be able to get this info for US cellphones appear to suggest that they can get UK mobile numbers as well. I thought that only the police had access to those listings?

Hypothetically if I had a persons mobile number (UK based) could I get his or her home address and name legally?

bitslice · 1 Jan 2007 at 20:31

I think the data protection act prohibits the release of private telephone details, I'd guess it would include mobiles too.
BT took legal action over the reverse lookup on UK-infos CDs

So I'd guess not legal, but from what I've seen, still possible

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