Megasquirt engine management

Pants · 21 Sep 2006 at 19:52

Hi,

I am going to strap MS to my engine. Not decided which route to take.

Easy: Use one driver output. Leave everything how it is and use the stabndard distributor and coil pack. Not sure if this will allow enough flexibility for changing the timing if i turbo?

HARDER: Modify MS to utilise 3 driver outputs. Use 3 coilpacks and ditch the distributor. Full flexibility on timing.

What would you do to your OBD 1 VR6?

Cheers,

Ant.

Pants · 26 Sep 2006 at 18:58

I have put a post up on MS Forums to see if I get any response.

bump

Dogbreath · 26 Sep 2006 at 19:09

Personaly I would go for option 1, at least to start with. The simpler the better when you are trying to get things working. You can always upgrade to a wasted spark system later if you feel you need it.

Pants · 28 Sep 2006 at 21:12

Hmm I have decided to go with the harder but better option of modified MS V3 with extra code. Going to run a V6 cossie coilpack and disconnect the distributor, it should be easier than I thought. Should be better in the long run.

I will use the standard management to controll idle, and the dashboard, immobiliser etc. I will then try to get the MS working on the ****ed up VR6 timing pattern, and if successful she will recieve and faraday decomp plate and 12psi of T34 goodness.

MS V3 + extra code is costing £350 with full legnth loom, so thats worth it for the ultimate flexibility.

I personally think it will be disgustingly fast for the price. 1K for the car, less than 1K for a turbo set up. Not sure how much better breaks and (another) suspension upgrade will be.

I know the shell is not the best, but the full VR6 running gear can always find it's way into a MK2 in the distant future.

Anyway i'm getting way ahead of myself here, need to get it running n/a first.

Pants · 16 Oct 2006 at 18:19

ECU and full Loom is now being built custom to my needs. It's will be ready soon. £350.

All I need now is some turbo gubbins... not decided what turbo to run yet. I'm thinking T3/T4 hybrid with .63 exhaust housing. Would boost very low down but also be capable of some serious power.

Can't wait to MAP it and see how much power I can get.

penski · 16 Oct 2006 at 18:33

Get your ass over to www.retro-rides.com - we LOVE our DIY ECUs and forced induction over there

...I may want to have a chat with you in a month or so too...

I really like the idea of a VR6 sucking through two sets of Triumph 955i throttle bodies with carbon trumpets, carbon plenum, T34 and Volvo intercooler. I reckon a grand including Megasquirtandspark...

Have you thought about Megajolt?

Does the Cossie V6 use a version of the EDIS system?

*n

Pants · 16 Oct 2006 at 19:02

Hello,

Feel free to get in contact I might have a mapped MSQ file by then!

I gather the V6 cossie coil pack is the same as EDIS. The chap building the MSnS has advised me to buy a new EDIS coilpack as they are pretty cheap new and it would be more reliable.

It's not a good idea to use the VR6 coilpack as they have a built in dwell angle. This in turn creates problems for the ECU. I have not thought about Megajolt, i haven't even looked into wheat it does as I gather EDIS will be OK for me. I will read up on it..

Triumph 955i throttle bodies sound very interesting. That would do away with the massive standard induction manifold. Very DIY I like it! Are we getting into custom fabrication for the manifold?

I know where to get a manifold for T3 / T4 bolt patterns for £275 delivered if your interested. Unless you are going DIY on that too!

You planning on putting yours into a Mk 1 or 2 as I know you like retro... Would love to see that.

penski · 16 Oct 2006 at 19:27

Pants said:
Hello,

Feel free to get in contact I might have a mapped MSQ file by then!

I gather the V6 cossie coil pack is the same as EDIS. The chap building the MSnS has advised me to buy a new EDIS coilpack as they are pretty cheap new and it would be more reliable.

Yeah - they're not that expensive. All you need is a toothed wheel (38-1?) and you're virtually good to go - just fabricate a bracket to hold the sensor.

Triumph 955i throttle bodies sound very interesting. That would do away with the massive standard induction manifold. Very DIY I like it! Are we getting into custom fabrication for the manifold?

Well you could give Bogg Brothers a ring for the inlet manifold or make your own. It's not particularly hard; you know the port spacing and you know the spacing of the TBs so you just need a flange for the engine end, a flange for the TB end and cut some pipe of the required length and angle to mate them.

I know where to get a manifold for T3 / T4 bolt patterns for £275 delivered if your interested. Unless you are going DIY on that too!

Hehehe - I'm 'bench building' at the moment - I like to plan out 'possible builds' how I'd do them if I had the chance

But you could easily go DIY on the exhaust manifold - means you can position the turbo wherever you want to aswell.

The thing about Turbo exhaust manifolds is that the design of them really isn't that critical in terms of flow so you can literally buy some laser-cut manifold flanges for £50 and £10 worth of steel scaffolding pole/box girder and fabricate your own. Turbo flanges are off-the-shelf parts and cost £10-15 for the most part.

You planning on putting yours into a Mk 1 or 2 as I know you like retro... Would love to see that.

I reckon a mkII with a 2.9 VR6 running Triumph TBs, DIY manifolds, DIY plenum/intake, MSnS and a T34 from a Cosworth would be an absolute hooligan of a car.

350bhp? Yes, sir!

Get an adaptor plate/bellhousing to mate it to an Opel/BMW Getrag 5-speed and you can put it in something RWD...

...Don't suppose you know how much the VR6 lump weighs?

*n

Dogbreath · 16 Oct 2006 at 21:16

Pants said:
It's not a good idea to use the VR6 coilpack as they have a built in dwell angle. This in turn creates problems for the ECU. I have not thought about Megajolt, i haven't even looked into wheat it does as I gather EDIS will be OK for me. I will read up on it..

If you are using EDIS that makes things simpler, as EDIS is essentialy a stand alone ignition controller (albeit a "dumb" one). With EDIS you will still get a spark even if the system is not connected to MS, albeit at a fixed advance angle. This makes debugging easier.

I originaly assumed you would be trying to use the MS (with Extra code) to control individual coil drivers, which is more complex, but allows you to use different trigger wheels, e.g. the 60-2 wheel found on most Bosch systems that VAG use. The EDIS system demands a 36-1 trigger wheel be fitted.

Pants · 16 Oct 2006 at 22:34

Dogbreath said:
I originaly assumed you would be trying to use the MS (with Extra code) to control individual coil drivers, which is more complex, but allows you to use different trigger wheels, e.g. the 60-2 wheel found on most Bosch systems that VAG use. The EDIS system demands a 36-1 trigger wheel be fitted.

OK I have clearly confused myself.

I was thinking I could just use the coilpack, and not the 36-1 wheel. As like you say I will have 3 driver outputs to control semi sequential ignition directly.

I just want a simple 2x3 coilpack to drive from the MS.

Dogbreath · 17 Oct 2006 at 00:07

Ok, your choices are:

1) Drive the three coils from a Megasquirt V3.0 and use the MS1/Extra code (MegaSquirtnSpark-Extra) to decode whatever trigger wheel you are using. The standard V3.0 PCB has provision for only one coil driver, so you will have to add two more coil drivers to the prototype area. This is fairly simple as most of the work is handled by a single component, the VB921 high current driver. Have a search on the MS forums, lots of people have done this.

2) Use the MS with the MS1/Extra code to control a Ford EDIS ignition ECU. The EDIS system is available for 4,6 or 8 cylinder configurations. No ignition drivers are needed on the MS, but the crank pulley or flywheel MUST be fitted with a 36-1 trigger wheel. The advantage of this is a stand alone, OEM quality igntion system, with cheap parts available from breakers i.e. in the unlikely event that you fry an EDIS module, pop down to a breakers and get another. Fry a VB921 and you'll have to mail order it in.