Merge in turn vigilantes

Soldato
Joined
22 Feb 2014
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2,658
Hence why we end up with morons who do things like straddle the middle of both lanes to enforce their own misunderstood version of the road rules upon others.

If I'm on the left, I just ensure I keep a nice big gap between me and the car in front all the way up to and past the point where the road becomes one lane. As a result, I never have this perception that people are baring in on me, because there is no need for them to do so.
when you say morons, IME it is somewhere around 90% of road users who don't understand some of the more "advanced" road rules, perhaps only a small percentage of those "morons" have the audacity to try and self police the road, but if more people had the same attitude they would do the same
 
Caporegime
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Rutland
However when the traffic is still moving reasonably even if a little slower than normal - rushing down past all the people who have queued up early and slower moving and then trying to get in effectively does nothing but look like barging in and does cause additional congestion regardless of the rules and intent.

It's what you're meant to do, drive down to the merge point and merge. Not queue in one lane.

The people queuing are the problem.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
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90,805
It's what you're meant to do, drive down to the merge point and merge. Not queue in one lane.

The people queuing are the problem.

That is the problem - in many situations relevant to this where the majority of people are doing it wrong doing it right often doesn't do anything but make it worse and cause aggro. Hence the need for a significant awareness campaign.
 
Soldato
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11 Sep 2013
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12,299
Why is everyone forced to slow down and make room? If you're using a merge point correctly, you should be leaving enough room between you and the vehicle in front to allow traffic to your side to merge in smoothly, surely.
It's never the vehicle actually in front, that you're busy letting in already. It's the one that was behind them that moves forward trying to force you to brake and let them in as well, because their bumper is a full 1.5" further ahead of yours... They don't want to wait their turn and cannot *bear* being a whole car further behind. Typically, you'll brake anyway just to let the **** in and another will pull forward to try the same thing. On a few occasions, I've known traffic going nice and fast in the merge lane, all blazing past some poor *** who braked to let one in and now everyone is going past them because they now can't move off!!

It's possibly worse in places like Reading, because the amount of lane changes you face when ambling about our wonderful IDR mean it's usually easier and smoother for the traffic flow to just get into whichever lane you'll ultimately need 2-3 miles up the road and stay in it. Not the same as queueing up, but similar mindset. By contrast, we also get people who ignore the eight or nine BIG-ass signs telling you which lane you need and then lane-change just as they get to the yellow lights, ending up stradding two lanes (occasionally three) and holding up traffic when the lights eventually turn... the few who do read the signs seemingly don't believe them until the actual junction they need appears, before blindly throwing their car across 2, 3 or even 5 lanes at once... You can tell the ones who are insured, because they indicate just after they start the turn.

There is a responsibility on both sides, it's certainly not always the case that the person merging is the one causing the problem.
Not always, no.
TBH, I've not really had a problem when merging in myself, that I especially recall. More issues with changing lanes, regardless of indication, speed matching, etc.
 
Man of Honour
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Ottakring, Vienna.
However when the traffic is still moving reasonably even if a little slower than normal - rushing down past all the people who have queued up early and slower moving and then trying to get in effectively does nothing but look like barging in and does cause additional congestion regardless of the rules and intent.
Everyone should use all the available lane until the merge point. If you want to queue up early, go for it - but unless a sign says "GET IN LANE NOW" you shouldn't - you should continue in the lane until the obstacle presents itself, thereby enabling maximum use of the available tarmac.
 
Man of Honour
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13 Oct 2006
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90,805
Everyone should use all the available lane until the merge point. If you want to queue up early, go for it - but unless a sign says "GET IN LANE NOW" you shouldn't - you should continue in the lane until the obstacle presents itself, thereby enabling maximum use of the available tarmac.

The problem is the should.
 
Associate
Joined
30 Jul 2003
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2,267
Had a few of the lane straddling idiots near here when the dual carriageway a short way from our house was down to one lane for a while.

It really doesn't seem like a difficult concept to grasp, if people were supposed to merge 500 yards further down the road, that's where the merge point would be.
 
Associate
Joined
14 Apr 2006
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2,182
So experienced this again today. Two lanes down to one due to road works, everyone queuing up in the left lane causing the roundabout to come to a standstill for all directions. Utterly utterly stupid. So I go down the completely empty right lane (to get off of the roundabout) and someone tries to pull out and 'block' both lanes. He fails and I join at the merge point about 15-20 cars in front of him. He does it again to a transit and again fails.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Oct 2002
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Near Cheltenham
My strategy is to slow down/stop 3-4 car lengths before the merge point and just sit alongside slightly behind the car at that point on the left, and make it obvious that I'm not trying to get absolutely to the cones before shoe horning my way over, that makes it look like I'm trying to be 'fair' about merging in and it seems to work..

The problem is whilst the majority of issues are from those in the open lane, quite a few people in the right really do always want to be right at the front and try to shoe horn their way in, rather than be a little bit more considerate..

I think the solution is to funnel the lanes from both sides for 10-20 yards into the centre of the two lanes, making both sides have to 'move over and merge', then direct them into the lane you want them in..
e.g. (Orange lines = Cones, Red = Merging point)
RW61M89.png
They had this on a small section of a dual carraigeway in the lake district which we went through daily for a week and that seemed to flow much better.
 
Soldato
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7 Nov 2004
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East of England
I used to find this happened a lot if you went at a decent pace to the front of the "queue" and attempt to merge. Then one day I decided to change my approach and go in quite slowly and maybe let one extra car go that I could have gone ahead of - to date, I haven't had another incident of someone trying to "stop me pushing in".

It really does work. You skip 99% of the traffic who are queuing because they're British, but you don't get into an altercation with "Ken" the 65 year old Skoda driving road warrior at the front.
 
Soldato
Joined
5 Apr 2009
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24,796
My strategy is to slow down/stop 3-4 car lengths before the merge point and just sit alongside slightly behind the car at that point on the left, and make it obvious that I'm not trying to get absolutely to the cones before shoe horning my way over, that makes it look like I'm trying to be 'fair' about merging in and it seems to work..

The problem is whilst the majority of issues are from those in the open lane, quite a few people in the right really do always want to be right at the front and try to shoe horn their way in, rather than be a little bit more considerate..

I think the solution is to funnel the lanes from both sides for 10-20 yards into the centre of the two lanes, making both sides have to 'move over and merge', then direct them into the lane you want them in..
e.g. (Orange lines = Cones, Red = Merging point)
RW61M89.png
They had this on a small section of a dual carraigeway in the lake district which we went through daily for a week and that seemed to flow much better.
I've always thought this, remove the mentality of 'he's pushing into MY lane' by making both lanes finish, rather than just one and it might help a few more people understand.
 
Associate
Joined
16 Mar 2004
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1,889
Location
Oxford
I've just been to Norfolk and thought the merge in turn junctions were a lot better with both lanes merging to one central lane, compared to those around Oxford where the outside merges to the inside.

People just don't seem to understand merge in turn though. I knew how it worked even before learning to drive, but during lessons it was reiterated how it works like a zip which made perfect sense.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Posts
2,658
My strategy is to slow down/stop 3-4 car lengths before the merge point and just sit alongside slightly behind the car at that point on the left, and make it obvious that I'm not trying to get absolutely to the cones before shoe horning my way over, that makes it look like I'm trying to be 'fair' about merging in and it seems to work..

The problem is whilst the majority of issues are from those in the open lane, quite a few people in the right really do always want to be right at the front and try to shoe horn their way in, rather than be a little bit more considerate..

I think the solution is to funnel the lanes from both sides for 10-20 yards into the centre of the two lanes, making both sides have to 'move over and merge', then direct them into the lane you want them in..
e.g. (Orange lines = Cones, Red = Merging point)
RW61M89.png
They had this on a small section of a dual carraigeway in the lake district which we went through daily for a week and that seemed to flow much better.


I Like it, although having said that, current trend of everyone mis-understanding the merge-in-turn lane means my journey home is a bit quicker :D
 
Soldato
Joined
8 Nov 2006
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22,966
Location
London
If people don't use an entire lane I'm happy to use it. I've never not been able to smoothly merge in afterwards.

Also like people not using bus lanes in heavy traffic when it is fine to do so.
 

bJN

bJN

Soldato
Joined
23 Nov 2009
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3,697
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Norwich
To try and ease congestion around Norwich (or at least keep as many junctions clear as possible) they are putting in/extending extra lanes with merge in turn points at the end.

I know exactly what you mean, and it gets on my nerves. But let's be frank, Norfolk does have some of the worst drivers in the country...

Plus if the councils keep going the way they are, Norwich won't even allow vehicles anywhere near the centre...

1udj6z.jpg
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
30 Sep 2003
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15,875
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Norwich
I know exactly what you mean, and it gets on my nerves. But let's be frank, Norfolk does have some of the worst drivers in the country...

Plus if the councils keep going the way they are, Norwich won't even allow vehicles anywhere near the centre...

1udj6z.jpg

Yeah they have really screwed it up haven't they. "Yes, lets close half the roads through the city. Then everyone will use the fantastic bus service or go everywhere by bike." Er... no, you've just squeezed the same number of cars on to half the roads! I actually managed 4 mph average speed (no exaggeration) from Bowthorpe to Prince of Wales road last week. FOUR MILES PER HOUR! Thankfully it is very rare I have to go into the city centre at all now.
 
Associate
Joined
22 Sep 2009
Posts
982
IF anyone has the displeasure of travelling south on the m6 and then joining the m5 will understand the morinity of not using the full length of merge in turn.

The m5 has been closed to 1 lane around the bit it's on stilts right after leaving the m6. (Just before it goes back to 3 lanes) So you get 1 long line of queuing cars backing up onto the m6 which ends up snarling up that road .

The Germans have a specific word for merge in turn as its engrained into their drivers , it does give me immense joy cruising past que junkies and then nipping in at the right point as the road signs are dictating! :D
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Jun 2006
Posts
38,372
It's the ridiculous "I'm not letting him get in front of me!" mentality. People should leave their pride at home before getting behind the wheel of a car.

precisely this. i was using the sat nav the other day in an area i've obviously never been to. there were 3 or 4 lanes and i should have been in the one on the very right however i was in the one next to it (third lane). i indicated and the guy next to me sped up not letting me in. so did the guy behind him. there was now a gap before the third car (i'm still indicating) so i slide over as the third car decides to also speed up as i'm moving into the large gap created and then do the horn when i got in front.

some people seem to think an additional 2 seconds onto their journey is worth having an accident over and driving like a complete moron.
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
Posts
12,299
you should continue in the lane until the obstacle presents itself, thereby enabling maximum use of the available tarmac.
I daresay a lot of the issue probably arises because many people were already in the left lane to begin with...

Also like people not using bus lanes in heavy traffic when it is fine to do so.
Unless you spotted the one and only sign waaaaaaaaaaaay back before you even knew about the merge, or already know the road (which is also no guarantee as things change), you probably won't know if it's permitted and risk a fine. Reading is quite good for allowing things like bikes and taxis in bus lanes, but only certain lanes and they also change things around quite often.
 
Soldato
Joined
8 Nov 2006
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22,966
Location
London
Unless you spotted the one and only sign waaaaaaaaaaaay back before you even knew about the merge, or already know the road (which is also no guarantee as things change), you probably won't know if it's permitted and risk a fine. Reading is quite good for allowing things like bikes and taxis in bus lanes, but only certain lanes and they also change things around quite often.

I always use bus lanes outside of operating hours. Hardly anyone uses them and I get to where I want to go much faster. Most I come across are only in force 7-10am and 4-7pm, major A roads might have 7am-7pm. Never had a fine yet in 8 years of driving.

Signs are plenty and well placed (I drive in London were TfL are very good at signing up roads). They have to have one for pretty much every intersecting road. It is particularly satisfying when you pass a massive column of traffic.
 
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