Migrants - Italy making a stand

Out of interest with these migrants:
  1. They don't have sufficient resources in their own country to have children yet they still do, surely that seems a little short sighted on their part.
  2. There are often loads of charity adverts on TV about a child that has to walk 10 miles a day across a dessert to fetch a bucket of water. Why don't they just move closer to the water?
 
Jamauk said:
Out of interest with these migrants:
  1. They don't have sufficient resources in their own country to have children yet they still do, surely that seems a little short sighted on their part.
  2. There are often loads of charity adverts on TV about a child that has to walk 10 miles a day across a dessert to fetch a bucket of water. Why don't they just move closer to the water?
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Many feel there's a good reason Africa is in the state it's in and it's not a lack of resources ;)

Some would correlate the rise and fall of pink on a map of Africa with the rise and fall of her productivity and stability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Tn4uOSe6o
 
Chris Wilson said:
From my post above yours:

{in Germany....}
Statistics from the Federal Labour Agency show the employment rate among refugees stands at just 17 per cent. It said 484,000 of the refugees are looking for work, up from 322,000 last July — an increase of 50 per cent. Of those, 178,500 are officially unemployed, meaning they not only have no work but are not enrolled in any training programmes or language courses — up 27 per cent on last July.
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My post clearly said immigrant labour, I'm not talking about refugees and the chap I responded to didn't seem to be either. I'm talking about those who come to the country specifically to work in a position be it high end (doctors) or low end (hotel staff) and our unemployed who complain about such are not skilled tondo the high end and see the low end in some way as "beneath" them.
 
Jamauk said:
Out of interest with these migrants:
  1. They don't have sufficient resources in their own country to have children yet they still do, surely that seems a little short sighted on their part.
  2. There are often loads of charity adverts on TV about a child that has to walk 10 miles a day across a dessert to fetch a bucket of water. Why don't they just move closer to the water?
Click to expand...


We have been sinking money in to Africa for decades now, but they have got literally nowhere. The west will build wells etc for the population at the time, but then they all have 10 kids and suddenly they have a shortage again. Repeat. They really do nothing to help themselves.
 
A continuing cascade of global government failure. Rinse and repeat, the past is the present and future under human rule or dictatorship, slowly but surely this ship has sailed its useless course and is sinking into a sea of calamity both figuratively and sadly literally.
 
Nasher said:
We have been sinking money in to Africa for decades now, but they have got literally nowhere. The west will build wells etc for the population at the time, but then they all have 10 kids and suddenly they have a shortage again. Repeat. They really do nothing to help themselves.
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We've been sending to governments which, sadly, are only out for themselves. Direct building (ala China) is probably the solution.

We should be looking to do something as turning people in distress away is wrong, but then I agree with the sentiment that there is only so much you can possibly do before everything is broken and we cannot even help ourselves never mind them.

So for me that's building there for them, perhaps operating through the UN, and just cutting out corrupt local government.
 
By continuing to rescue boatloads of people from the Mediterranean, all we are doing is lining the pockets of the smugglers, from the shores of Libya and in the originating countries as well. There may well be a resource and demand in Europe, in some areas, but the resource is finite and will at some stage be exhauted.
 
Italy is well within it's right to turn the boat away. They have been more than accommodating in the last few years, but it cannot go on forever. The people who say take the boat, how many more do you take? Do you have any logical limit? Don't you worry about the scumbag people traffickers fueling this misery?

We cannot get on a boat and sail to Morocco and decide to live there, the rule of law regarding sovereign boarders has existed for a long time and for good reason.

It's cruel no doubt, but the job of the Italian government is to protect it's own people. We should help North Africa become a better place to live if we want to help.
 
No1newts said:
My post clearly said immigrant labour, I'm not talking about refugees and the chap I responded to didn't seem to be either. I'm talking about those who come to the country specifically to work in a position be it high end (doctors) or low end (hotel staff) and our unemployed who complain about such are not skilled tondo the high end and see the low end in some way as "beneath" them.
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Chris and others never can seem to differentiate between Economic Immigrants, Illegal Immigrants, Refugees and Asylum Seekers and just lump them all into one group of "Economic Migrants"
 
MookJong said:
Italy is well within it's right to turn the boat away. They have been more than accommodating in the last few years, but it cannot go on forever.
It's cruel no doubt, but the job of the Italian government is to protect it's own people. We should help North Africa become a better place to live if we want to help.
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I know that it will sound facetious, and/or sarcastic, and I’m not trying for that,
but help North Africa become a better place to live? Good luck with that.
 
Freakbro said:
Chris and others never can seem to differentiate between Economic Immigrants, Illegal Immigrants, Refugees and Asylum Seekers and just lump them all into one group of "Economic Migrants"
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Plenty of people here don't even know the difference between refugees and migrant workers.

It's the same sort of people who believe "illegal immigrants" are claiming £1000's in benefits

If they are illegal they are claiming nothing.
 
Chris Wilson said:
And whilst the world watches the North Korean leader meeting President Donald Trump he has quietly furthered his anti migrant promises to his voters by revoking the ludicrously open ended and doubtlessly abused back door into the USA:

US asylum: Domestic and gang violence cases 'no longer generally qualify'

The US attorney general has ruled that victims of domestic abuse and gang violence should no longer generally qualify for asylum in the US.

Jeff Sessions' ruling overturns a 2016 decision which granted asylum to a woman from El Salvador who had been raped and abused by her husband.

Activists criticised the move, saying it will affect tens of thousands.

Mr Sessions has said he has a "zero tolerance" stance toward illegal immigration on the country's border.

"Generally, claims by aliens pertaining to domestic violence or gang violence perpetrated by non-governmental actors will not qualify for asylum," Mr Sessions wrote in his 31-page ruling released on Monday.

"The mere fact that a country may have problems effectively policing certain crimes - such as domestic violence or gang violence - or that certain populations are more likely to be victims of crime, cannot itself establish an asylum claim."

The anti migrant pressure can only increase, ongoing news of "Brexit" and the Korean meeting has kept illegal migrancy in the tens or hundreds of thousands off our screens this year, so far, but still Africa and other regions empty into Europe with the nefarious aid of so called NGO's who have a well oiled (in probably every sense) system to move as many illegals, as fast as possible, into Europe. In times of fears of more terrorist attacks you couldn't make this up, as Spain, a country well accustomed to terrorism opens its door to a ship full of illegals that could easily have been denied access and forced to return to Libya with its undocumented cargo.


Spain's leader says he wants to draw the EU's attention to the situation of migrants. Sounds ominously like we have a near neighbour in support of Europe taking yet more undocumented young blokes who just roll up on the beaches and in the ports, rather than send them back from whence they came...

Just do some basic maths and assume in the case of Germany a paltry 3% of the over 1.3 million migrants the unsteady Merkel has invited to the country are ineligible for asylum. 3% is almost certainly ludicrously low a figure. That's 39,000 people who should be being returned home. How many have they shifted so far.....?

As for those that say "we" need more migration into Europe it seems the economists have a depressing outlook for their productivity, most of those doctors and engineers supporters espoused about don't exist! :



Up to three quarters of Germany’s refugees will still be unemployed in five years’ time, according to a government minister, in a stark admission of the challenges the country faces in integrating its huge migrant population. Aydan Özoğuz, commissioner for immigration, refugees and integration, told the Financial Times that only a quarter to a third of the newcomers would enter the labour market over the next five years, and “for many others we will need up to 10”. The admission could prove awkward for Angela Merkel as she seeks a fourth term as chancellor in Bundestag elections this September. Ms Merkel saw her poll ratings plummet in 2015 when she responded to Europe’s gathering refugee crisis by throwing open Germany’s borders. The migrant issue no longer dominates the country’s nightly news bulletins, but pollsters say the question of how it will absorb the 1.3m migrants who have arrived here since the start of 2015 is still one of voters’ key concerns. That explains the continuing popularity of the Alternative for Germany, an anti-immigrant party that is now represented in 12 of Germany’s 16 regional parliaments. The AfD’s poll ratings have fallen in recent months but the party is still expected to pick up seats in the Bundestag for the first time in this year’s election. Initially, the influx of so many working-age, highly-motivated immigrants spurred optimism that they would mitigate Germany’s acute skills shortage and solve the demographic crisis posed by its dangerously low birth rate. Dieter Zetsche, chief executive of carmaker Daimler, said the refugees could lay the foundation for the “next German economic miracle”. 484,000 Number of refugees looking for work, up from 322,000 last July But those hopes have faded as a new realism about the migrants’ lack of qualifications and language skills sinks in. “There has been a shift in perceptions,” Ms Özoğuz told the FT. Many of the first Syrian refugees to arrive in Germany were doctors and engineers, but they were succeeded by “many, many more who lacked skills”. A recent report by the Institute for Employment Research (IAB) found that only 45 per cent of Syrian refugees in Germany have a school-leaving certificate and 23 per cent a college degree. Statistics from the Federal Labour Agency show the employment rate among refugees stands at just 17 per cent. It said 484,000 of the refugees are looking for work, up from 322,000 last July — an increase of 50 per cent. Of those, 178,500 are officially unemployed, meaning they not only have no work but are not enrolled in any training programmes or language courses — up 27 per cent on last July.

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The figures are terrifying for the cohesiveness of the German economy and for social tensions as even yesterday another child murder by an immigrant "known to the police" occurred in a park. These attacks, robberies, rapes and murders now seem to get little media attention, for whatever reason. Casual acceptance or a move to hide the escalating problems from the public for fear of civil unrest?

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Rhine-Westphalia on Monday. It was the latest in a series of murders of adolescent girls.


Police in Viersen were still holding a 25-year-old man from Turkey in connection with the crime on Tuesday morning.

The man, who is already known to the authorities, fled when police attempted to detain him on Monday. He later handed himself in, but police have not yet confirmed that he is a suspect.

On Monday shortly after midday a 15-year-old girl of Romanian citizenship was stabbed in a park in the town of 75,000 inhabitants. Bild reports that she was called Iulia R. and that she lived with her parents on the outskirts of town.

According to eyewitnesses, she collapsed as blood streamed from the wounds. A homeless man has told local media that he attempted to save her by holding her wounds together.

Emergency services arrived at the scene shortly after and rushed the teenager to hospital, but she died of her injuries shortly after.

Police then started a search in the town for the killer, who witnesses described as being around 1.70 metres tall and "of southern appearance.”

The Rheinische Post reports, based on police sources, that the murderer was romantically involved with his victim.

For reasons of tactical expediency, investigators have provided no further details about the crime, such as whether the murder weapon has been found.

This is the second time within a matter of days that the body of a murdered teenage girl has been discovered in Germany.

Last week, 14-year-old Susanna F.’s body was discovered near Wiesbaden in Hesse. Police suspect that she was raped and then murdered. A young Iraqi man has admitted to the murder but denied sexual assault.

Meanwhile, several teenage girls have been the victims of knife crime over the past six months.

In December last year a 15-year-old girl was stabbed to death in a drug store in the southwest of the country. Then in March, two teenage girls, one in Flensburg and one in Berlin, were stabbed to death.

Several of the crimes appear to have been motivated by jealousy on the part of the attacker.

The fact that the suspected murderers have often been asylum seekers has also led to a highly contentious debate on issues such as Angela Merkel’s refugee policies and the religious and cultural backgrounds of the attackers.

The Alternative for Germany (AfD) charge that Merkel made a momentous mistake by allowing hundreds of thousands of unregistered migrants to enter the country in late 2015. In the wake of the murder of Susanna F. they have called for Merkel and her entire cabinet to resign.

But critics charge the AfD with racism for statements which appear to portray all refugees who fled to Germany as dangers to society.

Their co-parliamentary leader Alice Weidel recently faced harsh criticism for disparaging remarks about girls who wear headscarves.

From: https://www.thelocal.de/20180612/teenage-girl-stabbed-to-death-in-west-germany

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Not much good to see here about the joys of multiculturalism is there?
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All true.

And well done Italy for standing your ground. Only wish the UK government was the same.
 
VincentHanna said:
Plenty of people here don't even know the difference between refugees and migrant workers.

It's the same sort of people who believe "illegal immigrants" are claiming £1000's in benefits

If they are illegal they are claiming nothing.
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this sort of stuff is pointless, rather that actually deal with posts made in the thread just chuck in some virtue signalling/borderline straw man attacking something no one has actually posted
 
dowie said:
this sort of stuff is pointless, rather that actually deal with posts made in the thread just chuck in some virtue signalling/borderline straw man attacking something no one has actually posted
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Yes they have

No1newts was talking about economic migrants and the labour market, Chris came back with a report trying to counter that about refugees. I point out that Chris and others can never tell the difference, Vincent agreed with that and cited previous examples.

No virtue signalling (by the way it's getting a bit boring the amount of times you try to throw that buzzword at people), no straw man and just because you always seem to be unwilling to take knowledge of peoples previous posting history into account, others of us do.
 
Freakbro said:
Yes they have

No1newts was talking about economic migrants and the labour market, Chris came back with a report trying to counter that about refugees. I point out that Chris and others can never tell the difference, Vincent agreed with that and cited previous examples.

No virtue signalling (by the way it's getting a bit boring the amount of times you try to throw that buzzword at people), no straw man and just because you always seem to be unwilling to take knowledge of peoples previous posting history into account, others of us do.
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it was a borderline straw man, he could have quoted what they've actually said rather than made something up based on their "posting history"

and that is what makes it virtue signalling... well it's OK because it is Chris Wilson and he's one of the bad ones, he must think this about migrants, isn't he silly etc...

it isn't really that hard to deal with what someone has actually posted, you read the arguments and respond to them... not some position you think they hold because of posting history

it doesn't achieve anything in terms of discussion other than venting a bit/virtue signalling etc...
 
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