Soldato
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NVM
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Misgendering? Sam Smith is now they or them, not he or him?!
- Thread starter Malt_Vinegar
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Soldato
oh thon's just all manner of broken (for which they have my sympathies). he/she/that is a definite it/they/whatever! and don't you start multi quoting this reply!!
Soldato
well in general true but i will concede there are poor sods/sodettes born with the wrong bits. but until they get that surgically sorted as far as i'm concerned if your born with a todger you're Roger and if you're name is Fanny well......A dude missing an eye isn't a cyclops, and a dude missing a **** isn't a woman
Soldato
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NVM
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Soldato
touché
Soldato
People get scared and want their views reinforced to make them feel comfortable.
I pity them really, it must be a miserable way to live.
Fortunately statistically extremely rare cases. And unfortunate indeed.
But entirely separate from the people who decide they want to be something they are not, as in this case. Or decide they are no longer something they have been confirmed as being since birth.
Or gender, which is entirely made up and superfluous anyhow. Animals don't have gender and it hasn't hindered them from getting on with it
Man of Honour
Because it's important. I don't accept sexism. I don't care if something thinks that my opposition to sexism is a lack of "empaphy". I don't care if sexist people are offended. No, it's more than that. I hope they are offended.
I also don't agree with the idea of biological group identity hierarchy that's an inherent part of contempory weaponised "offence". When someone uses "offence" as a weapon, they always do so in a context of a hierarchy. It always means "This claim of offence matters because a superior biological group identiry is claiming offense from an inferior biological group identity". Even when the group identity isn't actually biological (such as gender), it's passed off as biological (the pretence that gender is sex) for ideological reasons.
It's nothing new. For example, in many parts of high and late medieval Europe it wouldn't have mattered if a Jew was offended because Jews were generally seen as an inferior status biological group identity.
Does that explain to you why some people will speak out against it? We're still allowed to do so. The fashionable bigots haven't completely won yet. They have their Newspeak and their Ministry of Truth and their propaganda (especially targetting children, of course), but they don't yet have the degree of authoritarianism they want. We might get the police warning us about our thoughtcrimes and we will be villified for our thoughtcrimes, but we won't yet be tortured for our thoughtcrimes until we are re-educated into goodthink.
Associate
And equally why should people have to announce their acceptance by praising it. I said earlier in the thread, I'm just not bothered.... That's not lack of acceptance...
You could argue that is lack of empathy as well but that would imply that I should care. ... When the reality is that I shouldn't need to.
True diversity to me is where it simply doesn't matter who people are... And as a result I shouldn't need to care ...
Yes it's truly miserable being forced to make up your own mind independently of the trend-setters, and not just acquiescing to whatever's fashionable at the time.
Indeed I have but in the right context. Which is not the same context HE is asking for. Sorry THEY!
Soldato
oh those lot can jog on. such as Sam Smith. He's a he and will continue to be so until the day he dies or has the appropriate surgery and changes his name to....Sam Smith.
jesting aside, I do have the utmost sympathies for those who cannot reconcile the physical body into which they have been born with the person they think or wish they were but they need help for that and that help isn't expecting people to call them by some pronoun that doesn't fit with what the rest of the world sees.
Christ, I'm not happy with the body I've been 'given' - I wish I had been born into the body of a 6ft 2, muscle bound, full head of haired man who doesn't suffer from ulcerative colitis and a plethora of other less serious but nonetheless irritating and painful health issues. but I wasn't, much as I sometimes imagine I was. the fact is I've got to live with the hand dealt to me. so, that's just my tough luck and I have to suck it up whether I like it or not. of course there'll be those who'll want to scream at me 'but but but that is different to poor Sam' - it's ******* not. the cold hard reality is that life is **** sometimes but it is what it is. deal with the hand you've been dealt yourself or if you can't then seek help, medical, psychological. but don't try and force your wants and desires onto others. that's just a dick move.
Soldato
I don't care how people decide to classify their genitals, particularly complete strangers whom I will never meet in my lifetime. I think you're confusing apathy for hostility.
There's very little reason to believe that this isn't another type of mental disorder. Of which humans are bestowed with thousands of different kinds.oh those lot can jog on. such as Sam Smith. He's a he and will continue to be so until the day he dies or has the appropriate surgery and changes his name to....Sam Smith.
jesting aside, I do have the utmost sympathies for those who cannot reconcile the physical body into which they have been born with the person they think or wish they were but they need help for that and that help isn't expecting people to call them by some pronoun that doesn't fit with what the rest of the world sees.
Christ, I'm not happy with the body I've been 'given' - I wish I had been born into the body of a 6ft 2, muscle bound, full head of haired man who doesn't suffer from ulcerative colitis and a plethora of other less serious but nonetheless irritating and painful health issues. but I wasn't, much as I sometimes imagine I was. the fact is I've got to live with the hand dealt to me. so, that's just my tough luck and I have to suck it up whether I like it or not. of course there'll be those who'll want to scream at me 'but but but that is different to poor Sam' - it's ******* not. the cold hard reality is that life is **** sometimes but it is what it is. deal with the hand you've been dealt yourself or if you can't then seek help, medical, psychological. but don't try and force your wants and desires onto others. that's just a dick move.
Consider that people can believe they the reincarnation of Jesus, and we don't force Christians to call them "Lord".
Consider that people believe their perfectly healthy arm should be amputated. Some people even want to be quadruple amputees, and feel that it's wrong that they were born with arms and legs. Some people have intentionally blinded themselves because they felt they were supposed to be blind.
I don't mock those people because it's bloody tragic. But it's clearly a mental disorder.
In the case of "gender" we instead do everything possible to make their distorted world view a reality, instead of trying to challenge and/or treat it.
Give it time.
Soldato
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I feel like I'm reading 1984 again. I understand your point of view and appreciate your sharing it though. As others have put (below), I think that to be indifferent is perfectly acceptable. I'm pretty much in that position to be honest, I do however have people close to me who are either identify as non-binary or are very close to people who do that, I also appreciate and understand their opinions.
It's unlikely that I was referring to you when saying that people lacked empathy, it was more those who go out of their way to be nasty. Such as...
To describe it as mental illness is just sad.
I'm completely onboard with this, I think you're right that I was meaning more hostility as opposed to empathy although there is certainly some of the latter in there too.
I also agree with this, see above.
Soldato
so what is it if it's not some sort of mental disorder? is it an evolutionary trait? a freak occurrence in nature, an abnormality if you will? i'm not trying to be nasty btw i'm just curious as to what you think it is when a person born into a male body doesn't or can't accept the fact that they are male while at the same time doesn't or can't identify as being female?
Man of Honour
And true. Mental illness is pretty sad. Been there, done that. I didn't get a T-shirt, though.
I have sympathy for people who have mental illness. I don't have sympathy for people who, as the person you quoted accurately stated, "can't deal with their mental illnesses and demand that others participate in their fantasy and then expect them to be punished by the state If they dont."
So yeah, chalk me up for wrongthink as well.
I understand the opinions of people who strive to promote sexism (or racism or whatever-ism). I don't approve of them. There's a difference.
As long as people seperate sex and gender, I don't care. I don't care what people wear. I don't care what name a person chooses. I don't care how masculine or feminine they are or what their sex is or to what extent they match (or don't match) whatever ideas of gender are fashionable in any time or place. But I do care a lot when people pretend that gender is sex because that's promoting sexism.
Soldato
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I can't possibly say what the individuals go through as I haven't been there. I do think it's possible though that someone can not feel as though they belong in their skin. What's to say this is any different from all those people who for centuries have pretended they weren't gay as it wasn't socially acceptable. I understand the argument that biology is different to being heterosexual or not, but is this not talking about gender rather than sex?