Money DOES Grow on Trees

Radiation · 24 Sep 2010 at 17:07

Im pretty sure everyones value perception is flawed and companies are overly greedy and profit motivated in nature, im all for making a reasonable profit but when they get big and powerful its time they eased up and become sustainable rather than greedy and only caring for short term gains, also get rid of stocks, the system appears to be setup by accident or design so people are in a constant state of debt one way or another, things like houses should only cost a little more than it took to build and actually stay the same or go down in value, they're a major source debt and problems as we need them to live, same goes for many other basic needs.

Tefal · 24 Sep 2010 at 17:10

things like houses should only cost a little more than it took to build and actually stay the same or go down in value,

Then you'll have to get rid of all planning permission and let people build wherever and what ever they like.

Radiation · 24 Sep 2010 at 17:36

Tefal said:
Then you'll have to get rid of all planning permission and let people build wherever and what ever they like.

Why do you? If theres not enough to go around and available space runs out it simply runs out, if theres too many people then thats way it is, just because theres supply and demand doesn't mean people should be put into lifelong debt and the problems associated with it, i even think if someone can't pay enough for a while due to any number of reasons they shouldn't lose the house, stuff like that ends up hurting society far more than these companies/banks not getting their profits on time.

VeNT · 24 Sep 2010 at 17:43

This is why we had speakers cave people.
so it didn't pollute GD!

growse · 24 Sep 2010 at 18:00

Radiation said:
Why do you? If theres not enough to go around and available space runs out it simply runs out, if theres too many people then thats way it is, just because theres supply and demand doesn't mean people should be put into lifelong debt and the problems associated with it, i even think if someone can't pay enough for a while due to any number of reasons they shouldn't lose the house, stuff like that ends up hurting society far more than these companies/banks not getting their profits on time.

So you think the state should enforce an artificial cap on house prices that relates to how much the bricks cost?

And you don't think that'll cause problems?

Wow.

P.S. Why just houses? Why not enforce profit margin caps on everything in society? That'll surely solve all the problems caused by greedy companies? No?

Tefal · 24 Sep 2010 at 18:38

Radiation said:
Why do you? If theres not enough to go around and available space runs out it simply runs out, if theres too many people then thats way it is,

Ahh so mass homelessness is a solution then ok.

Radiation · 24 Sep 2010 at 23:46

Tefal said:
Ahh so mass homelessness is a solution then ok.

Yeah because thats just what i said right?

What do you think will happen anyway if population continues to increase?

We will have the same problem only worse because people are in more debt than need be, you like to think you're clever and picking holes but you often fail to see the bigger picture or even the point someone is making.

Alex_6n2 · 25 Sep 2010 at 02:57

So OP, you watched Zeitgeist and then came to enlighten us all about these "INCREDIBLE THINGS YOU DIDN'T KNOW!!!1111" ?

No, capitalism and the current banking system is not perfect. Yes there are greedy people at the top. Welcome to human civilisation. Let me ask you this, do you work in the finance industry? Do you know the intricate workings of the global economy and all its constituents? No? Then your a moron for trying to laud it over people with drivel.

steve-h · 25 Sep 2010 at 03:13

Ivan Drago said:
Yep, welcome to the real world where YOU know nothing.

How can seemingly educated people not know this? LOL.

WAKE UP DRONES

This thread was made because the thread in Speakers Corner was closed - why?

growse · 25 Sep 2010 at 08:55

Radiation said:
Yeah because thats just what i said right?

What do you think will happen anyway if population continues to increase?

We will have the same problem only worse because people are in more debt than need be, you like to think you're clever and picking holes but you often fail to see the bigger picture or even the point someone is making.

If the population continues to increase, that will lead to a larger demand for houses. Therefore, more houses are going to be built to meet that demand. If that leads us to higher-density housing, then that's a result of the reality of having a finite amount of land on which to build. Unless we invade France. But then there's the French people. Hmm.

You also appear to think that debt is a massive problem - it really isn't. Ask any sensible person with a mortgage or a credit card, or any business: Properly managed debt is an essential part of providing businesses with the ability to grow, and people to achieve their desired standard of living.

Debt is a simple swap between an amount of cash and an income stream over time (for a price). I don't see how this is difficult?

daz · 25 Sep 2010 at 10:21

OP needs to read some books on Economics

I suggest wiki to get him started though, how about here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetarism

semi-pro waster · 25 Sep 2010 at 10:51

Rainmaker said:
EDIT: A home-made looking 'documentary' called "Money as Debt" seems to cover exactly what I'm trying to explain. It's full of quotes from people like former directors of the Bank of England, US Senators etc etc proclaiming what I said above as essentially true. Apparently.

BunnyKillBot · 25 Sep 2010 at 11:02

Question, whats to stop a bank saying they have more money than they have actually made and just 'adding it to the system' electronic transfers etc, or is that what inflation is?

Radiation · 25 Sep 2010 at 13:13

growse said:
If the population continues to increase, that will lead to a larger demand for houses. Therefore, more houses are going to be built to meet that demand. If that leads us to higher-density housing, then that's a result of the reality of having a finite amount of land on which to build. Unless we invade France. But then there's the French people. Hmm.

You also appear to think that debt is a massive problem - it really isn't. Ask any sensible person with a mortgage or a credit card, or any business: Properly managed debt is an essential part of providing businesses with the ability to grow, and people to achieve their desired standard of living.

Debt is a simple swap between an amount of cash and an income stream over time (for a price). I don't see how this is difficult?

Some debt is ok if the interest is small, theres nothing difficult to understand but some fail to see the bigger problems it causes, there is only so much true wealth in existence at any one time and being created everyday so this debt that banks can create doesn't exist in any real form, yet we're expected to pay more than reasonable from our work energy back into the system, so others may benefit more than we do while still owning our source of debt for free, because in the event you can't pay they take it back and keep the money made in that time while you get nothing!

semi-pro waster said:
It's part of the definition of a company, they are there to make a profit for shareholders - that's why they exist. The concept of them just making a "reasonable profit" (how do you define this and who sets the limit?) is a nice one, I'd like to believe that companies are socially and economically responsible rather than just paying lip-service to it but there's a bit of give and take here - we as consumers have to demonstrate that we consider it important enough to vote with our wallets and they will in turn tend to take note if significant enough numbers do so, it's not an absolute solution but take small steps here.

You do realise that you've just removed most of the incentive to build property if you say it should only cost a little more to buy than it did to build - construction isn't a very certain occupation for many, look at the number of firms that fail every year to see that. Sometimes they'll make a big profit and that will tide them through the times that aren't so good. Unless we go for a system where housing is organised and ordered by the state it seems unlikely that your ideas will come to fruition.

The incentive with both is a higher standard of living for everyone, companys without shareholders could pay the workers more and sell the goods and services for less, the idea that shareholders can make money from money is pretty questionable, im not talking about real investment here like on dragons den but the whole stock market setup is not really for the greater good and neither is excessive expectations of profits in general, this would also help with jobs and the economy as people can afford more while working to create the wealth they desire!

semi-pro waster · 25 Sep 2010 at 13:43

Radiation said:
The incentive with both is a higher standard of living for everyone, companys without shareholders could pay the workers more and sell the goods and services for less, the idea that shareholders can make money from money is pretty questionable, im not talking about real investment here like on dragons den but the whole stock market setup is not really for the greater good and neither is excessive expectations of profits in general, this would also help with jobs and the economy as people can afford more while working to create the wealth they desire!

And while I applaud the idea that man should do good for his fellow man just because - I don't think it's all that likely to happen, at least not on a widespread scale, so you've somehow got supplant the current status quo with this idea you have where everyone helps each other in striving for some kind of equal sharing arrangement.