More London violence.

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How times change, I remember when the Police used to say to the public to stay out of the way of Police business, especially if it was in the apprehension of criminals.....now the Police are saying if the public don't get involved in helping officers apprehend violent criminals they might just have to let them go

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ed-public-support-to-arrest-violent-offenders

I appreciate all these announcements are usually political in nature, aimed at the politicians and the budget cuts, but to criticise members of the public not stopping in their cars to get out and help police officers in a brawl seems a bit much, you're paid to do the dangerous job and you have equipment to deal with it.

Not saying members of the public shouldn't help, but it should totally be down to the individual if they feel confident/able to help, which has always happened.
 
Freakbro said:
How times change, I remember when the Police used to say to the public to stay out of the way of Police business, especially if it was in the apprehension of criminals.....now the Police are saying if the public don't get involved in helping officers apprehend violent criminals they might just have to let them go

I appreciate all these announcements are usually political in nature, aimed at the politicians and the budget cuts, but to criticise members of the public not stopping in their cars to get out and help police officers in a brawl seems a bit much, you're paid to do the dangerous job and you have equipment to deal with it.
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It's a bit conflicted at times, in the other thread I posted an incident where an armed robber was trying to steal a police car, according to the article the police officers told members of the public to stay back - though they were later thanked by the police for assisting.

There are certainly some incidents I've seen reported where I do think that bystanders could jump in, it isn't exactly uncommon to see say a weaker police officer attempt to restrain a resisting suspect and various members of the public just standing around either filming it on their mobile phones or just jeering, laughing etc.. being entertained by the whole scenario. I do wonder if they perhaps need wider deployment of some more powerful spray (PAVA instead of CS) or perhaps some changes in the guidance on using takers (or indeed greater deployment of tazers).

Certainly I'd think that if you've got a couple of police officers who are either males with relatively little muscle mass or female officers and they're trying to apprehend some moped muggers and all they've got are their extendible batons and some weak CS spray then they're going to have some issues if the muggers start fighting/resisting.
 
And this is why it's a budget issue - numbers of police on the beat / level of equipment and training.

Like I said, I'm not saying the public shouldn't get involved, individuals always have, but to move that on to an expectation and to be critical if they don't is a step to far imo
 
Exactly, the police are underfunded, if we want better policing, lower crime we need to increase their budget, this perhaps means we also need to increase taxation a little bit too.
 
dowie said:
It's a bit conflicted at times, in the other thread I posted an incident where an armed robber was trying to steal a police car, according to the article the police officers told members of the public to stay back - though they were later thanked by the police for assisting.

There are certainly some incidents I've seen reported where I do think that bystanders could jump in, it isn't exactly uncommon to see say a weaker police officer attempt to restrain a resisting suspect and various members of the public just standing around either filming it on their mobile phones or just jeering, laughing etc.. being entertained by the whole scenario. I do wonder if they perhaps need wider deployment of some more powerful spray (PAVA instead of CS) or perhaps some changes in the guidance on using takers (or indeed greater deployment of tazers).

Certainly I'd think that if you've got a couple of police officers who are either males with relatively little muscle mass or female officers and they're trying to apprehend some moped muggers and all they've got are their extendible batons and some weak CS spray then they're going to have some issues if the muggers start fighting/resisting.
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As a police officer I'm guessing you're more likely to come across and be apart of petty violence... To that end people need to be prepared for that.

I understand the important role in women being more effective at deescalating some scenarios, but fundamentally I'd say if you can't see someone right with a baton (which are most definitely not flimsy when hit across the back of the legs with :D) then you need more gym time or a different career (same for men as well).
 
Well plenty of the moped gangs they're having to deal with in London are armed, must be much better to have a tazer than a baton when dealing with someone with a knife say:


 
P.s I would be reluctant to support an officer in the street. Partly because I don't trust them not to land me with my own charge.

And partly because I've been in a few fights in a previous life and its astounding how much damage can be sustained from a single punch.

(Yes I'm selfish)
 
dowie said:
Well plenty of the moped gangs they're having to deal with in London are armed, must be much better to have a tazer than a baton when dealing with someone with a knife say:


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Reminded me of something I saw on my street when living in London - guy very drunk (bad breakup apparently) stumbling down the middle of the road completely naked with a shotgun - one police women just casually talked him into disarming. For some reason the fact that after he'd shot both barrels into the air they could very clearly see he had no more ammo! escaped me until thinking about it just now (I just assumed at the time he was well known to them - hence why they dealt with it so casually).
 
I'm not comfortable with the Police comment this morning concerning members of the public getting involved tbh.

From watching some of these videos the Police could do with some better restraint training.
 
Malevolence said:
More cultural enrichment

https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/19/boy-...h-were-knocked-out-in-jacket-robbery-8156280/
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If those cretins did that to either of my kids or any of my grandkids, it wouldn’t be allowed to happen, but I’d like to have them securely spreadeagled on the floor, arms stretched wide, and hands nailed down, and be allowed to take my time, slowly kicking their faces until they died a hopefully agonising death.

FoxEye said:
All of that conveniently ignores that in this example the chap gave them his jacket with no resistance, then they held him in a choke hold and knocked out his teeth, before attempting to knife him (possibly fatally).

Compared to other nations, these guys aren't poor. They aren't starving, or dying of malaria or something. They're actually pretty well off by global standards. And they are benefiting from the cheap clothes you mention as much as anyone else. Hoodies especially :p

They just so happen to be human scum that enjoy mugging people when they know they can get away with it. With no sense of right and wrong, no virtues and no morality. No decency. They are frankly an affront to all right-thinking people everywhere.



And yet the bonkers "liberals" are queuing up to say, "Poor dears, they are the real victims; victims of our terrible, racist, western patriarchy that doesn't give them a chance to become the engineers and scientists they are deep down." Because they can't recognise evil when they see it. Some people are evil.
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Difficult to argue with any of that.

FoxEye said:
Well frankly I will always be on the side of the non-violent, law-abiding people trying to go about their daily lives without fear of being stabbed, mugged, etc.

I'm not advancing capital punishment but there does have to be punishment. You cannot allow criminal acts to go unpunished.

Personally I feel that prison does not have to be an effective deterrent. Part of the function of prison is simply to remove individuals inclined towards anti social behaviour from the rest of us, not for their good but for ours.

Tbh enforced sterilisation sounds like a good plan to me. Too many kids growing up in broken homes to really awful parents. An endless cycle that can maybe be broken by stopping the bad apples from breeding.
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No doubt a line is forming, to tell me where I’m wrong, but I’m beginning to warm to your logic.
 
dowie said:
Exactly, the police are underfunded, if we want better policing, lower crime we need to increase their budget, this perhaps means we also need to increase taxation a little bit too.
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There is already enough taxation. How about reducing the Bribe Fund instead? How about re-allocating policing. Not allowing political policing?

The worst way to spend money is through tax. We just can't hijack the system to favour the earning class
 
This brainwashing as been happening for many years were good people can't use violence or aggression to restore order. So now people have no respect for the police... and if they can't be turn up to law abiding peoples houses to investigate crime then they are losing friends fast. A sad state of affairs.
 
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