Motorists vs Cyclists

Shoseki said:
No, I cycle to get to work. If I wanted to go Go Karting, I go to a track. If I wanted to play pool, I go to a bar.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't justify it. Thats like saying, we should let you use the space outside the front of your house on the sidepath as an extension of your house, just because you want to.

Like it or lump it, we all have to share the roads.

@ Mohinder, yes it is *at the moment*. I was hoping we could get past the Status Quo and address some of the real issues I raised, without having to resort to name calling.

I think it is ridiculous that you can possibly think that our current state is sustainable. Do you think there are becoming less people in the world? That the number of car owners is suddenly going to drop, or that the government will just solve all our problems for us? Are you waiting for other people to stop clogging up the roads so that you can use them?

That is why this problem is a "tragedy of the commons" problem. You don't care, no-one does, but at the end of the day, it is you who will suffer. I am already free of 95% of these problems, because a) I got a job that was within my ability to get there (infrastructure, rail or cycle) b) the infrastructure does not suffer from this problem, and is scalable, whereas an infinite amount of cars on a finite number of roads/road space does not compute.
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Riding bicycles is not going to fix the world.

Your whole beef with pollution's gone out of the window too now you've mentioned go karting.

And if you're really that hung up about being called a hippy, then you've got issues, lad.

And Haz - I'm not the type to sit around picking up on spelling errors, but when you're using a word to describe someone as being of radically lower intelligence than yourself, spelling it entirely wrong is going to make you look like a total, total pillock.
 
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Simon said:
This thread rocks.

Too many people have a such a narrow mind that they think their own situation is replicated around the whole country.
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The country is not going to "undevelop". Whether you are aware of it or not, living in a city is entirely different from living in a town. different from living in a village. The scales of infrastructure and the types of problems faced are entirely different. However, the main rules still apply - there are more people alive, being born and enjoying life. I am not against this, though I think our systems need to be re-assessed.

Simon said:
I should have had a pushbike at uni. Would have been fun pedalling down the M1 with my PC hanging off one handle bar, tv off the other and towing a trailer with the rest of my things in.
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So, you got through your difficult transition from home to student house with a car, the same could have been achieved with a rented van. Either way, its not exactly detrimental to the cyclists POV, because you wouldn't do this with a bicycle anyway, and if where you live is so spaced out, then you aren't facing these issues yet.

Simon said:
Personally cyclists annoy me, they pedal up hills so slowly and cars get past. They go through red lights as if they don't exist. However I think a lot of people imagine that they get cut up by cars when on bikes. Why on earth would anyone want to hit a bike and risk scratching their paint :p
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Thats fair enough, although tbh bikes don want to get hit by a car because they don't want to DIE. Kinda puts the whole paint comment into perspective.
 
Mohinder said:
And Haz - I'm not the type to sit around picking up on spelling errors, but when you're using a word to describe someone as being of radically lower intelligence than yourself, spelling it entirely wrong is going to make you look like a total, total pillock.
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Maybe
But you getting an erection over it makes you look a complete ****.
 
lol some of you are like little children. :p

Anyway, its currently very busy on the roads, do you think in a few years time it will just turn out to be a grid lock and if you dont, why do you say this?
 
My comment was tongue in cheek, of course no one wants to hit a cyclist. I have never seen someone try to run a cyclist over, or cut one up, as claimed in this thread I still have a bike which I ride. As a teenager I had a paper round for 4 years which I did every morning on my bike, aswell as riding it miles to see friends before I could drive. I see it from both sides.

Infact Thursday night i nearly ran one over! not cause I wanted to but the idiot had no lights on. Hell I even went to Cambridge the other day and didn't run anyone over, although I did almost get run over as a pedestrian by people on bikes. I think there is potential another thread for pedestrians against cyclists. That can be full of massive generalisations too :D

I used to work in Derby, that is full of bikes so I know what a city is like. My commute to current job involves going up a big hill out of Reading, if a cyclist is going up there you soon know about it as the traffic is at a standstill, however everyone is patient and waits for a safe place to overtake, never seen someone mow one down into the kerb.

At least with a car you know some ***** won't steal it when it's parked outside work
 
Mohinder said:
Riding bicycles is not going to fix the world.

Your whole beef with pollution's gone out of the window too now you've mentioned go karting.

And if you're really that hung up about being called a hippy, then you've got issues, lad.

And Haz - I'm not the type to sit around picking up on spelling errors, but when you're using a word to describe someone as being of radically lower intelligence than yourself, spelling it entirely wrong is going to make you look like a total, total pillock.
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Lets see, I raised a large number of issues, and all that you have brought is character attacks. I don't have a beef with pollution - if it is controllable and manageable. Go karting is go karting - it will produce pollution and it can be managed. The number of go karts is hardly becoming exponential. Environmentalism is about appreciating the processes involved and offsetting or producing counter processes to nullify the effect.

I never *said* riding bicycles was going to fix the world. I said *ban personal motorised vehicules from and around city centres*. My issue with cars on the environmental scale was due to the fact that it is *one person per car*. Even carpooling fails, why? Because motorists don't even want to talk with each other, deal with each other, let alone carpool together. Cars are only convenient for the *one person driving it*. Mr CEO in company A and Mr Factory worker in company B might not want to share a car, want to even speak to each other, but guess what - they share the same road, they are still going to obstruct each others' clear passage to wherever they are going. Like it or not, they are both part of the same system, which is what I suspect all car drivers are in pure denial of.

Anyway, I gotta take time out from this discussion, I am cycling to the town centre of brighton near churchill square - they banned all vehicules except taxis, buses and cyclists from that area - and it is a clear area. God knows what it would be like if personalised motorists were allowed there...
 
Shoseki said:
Lets see, I raised a large number of issues, and all that you have brought is character attacks. I don't have a beef with pollution - if it is controllable and manageable. Go karting is go karting - it will produce pollution and it can be managed. The number of go karts is hardly becoming exponential. Environmentalism is about appreciating the processes involved and offsetting or producing counter processes to nullify the effect.

I never *said* riding bicycles was going to fix the world. I said *ban personal motorised vehicules from and around city centres*. My issue with cars on the environmental scale was due to the fact that it is *one person per car*. Even carpooling fails, why? Because motorists don't even want to talk with each other, deal with each other, let alone carpool together. Cars are only convenient for the *one person driving it*. Mr CEO in company A and Mr Factory worker in company B might not want to share a car, want to even speak to each other, but guess what - they share the same road, they are still going to obstruct each others' clear passage to wherever they are going. Like it or not, they are both part of the same system, which is what I suspect all car drivers are in pure denial of.

Anyway, I gotta take time out from this discussion, I am cycling to the town centre of brighton near churchill square - they banned all vehicules except taxis, buses and cyclists from that area - and it is a clear area. God knows what it would be like if personalised motorists were allowed there...
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You're taking this all very personally. Relax, angry cyclist.

I used to go everywhere by pushbike and still ride sometimes, and I fully side with you as far as what buggers car drivers can be, but banning cars from town centres is just ridiculous.
 
Shoseki said:
Anyway, I gotta take time out from this discussion, I am cycling to the town centre of brighton near churchill square - they banned all vehicules except taxis, buses and cyclists from that area - and it is a clear area. God knows what it would be like if personalised motorists were allowed there...
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Best hurry up, it looks like it's about to rain
 
I cycle since I can't afford to own a car. I don't expect to be able to go through red lights or swerve dangerously between lanes and without indicating, but I would appreciate a certain amount of decency and respect on the road from motorists towards cyclists, which certain people who have posted seem to be lacking. I have a right to use the public roads and I'm sick of cars cutting me up and driving in cycle lanes, even if that is because they don't like having to let bikes go past and then go through all the hassle of overtaking them again.
 
I definitely think drivers should respect cyclists as much as they can. These people are reducing congestion, saving the environment, keeping themselves in shape, etc. There are no disadvantages really.

I can also appreciate why people use their cars so much. I wouldn't like to cycle in the rain or more than 10 miles or in the freezing cold. That said, I think people use their cars too much. When I went to our local first/middle school there were hardly any cars. Everyone lives within 1 or 2 miles so everyone either walked home with friends or with their parents. Now when I go past there is about 50 or 60 cars parked on grass verges at the side of the road. It's sheer laziness for most of the parents imo, not to mention the danger for the kids.

I like to do all my short journeys (local shops, Post Office, etc) on my bike and I think it would be great if more people did that. I enjoy the camaraderie between fellow bike owners. Something which is less apparent with cars. But I use my car the rest of the time and when I need too.

Although I should add that I have never had a problem with cars on my bike. I constantly get waved out by them, they give plenty of room, etc. Probably because I'm just ambling along on my Beach Cruiser and not powering down the road clad in Lycra and driving through red lights.
 
[TW]Fox;10221010 said:
My gosh, for a pushbike?

Overkill or what?

You can get a high end sportsbike for that! Less than that even!
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Not really. I enjoy racing bikes so I want the best bike I can get. Just like people who enjoy driving cars want the best car they can get. I am fully aware that I could buy a nice car or motorbike for the same sum. However, I don't want one and wouldn't get anything like the level of enjoyment out of owning one as I do from my bicycles.
 
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