Moving from a stable consulting career to a hedge fund

TNGL · 3 Nov 2017 at 23:17

Brief

Currently doing data science consulting for a large multinational consultancy; very secure job, pay is good and career path is solid in the short to medium term. The hedge fund position is a tiny company (in comparison to where I'm currently at), there's obviously less job security and the career path does not seem as clear. The work involved in the fund is quite varied and I'd be able to work across the investment and sales/marketing teams, however, I would have to do some less interesting support work.

I'm 21, graduated this year and haven't been at the consultancy for too long.

What's good with where I'm at

Very secure job
Pay is good
Great benefits
Career path is solid in short to medium term
Great learning opportunities

What's bad with where I'm at

Finding it hard to fit into the culture
Work isn't as interesting as it sounds
Forced into insurance projects because of my degree in Actuarial Science, however, they are forgetting I chose not to pursue actuarial for a reason
Currently stuck on a terrible database modelling project for another 6 months
'Real' data science projects are often snapped up by more experienced consultants currently on the bench
Risk of being put on a project in the middle of nowhere

What's good about the fund

Work is more interesting and varied, I'd say I have more of an affinity for the industry than data science consulting
Spent some time at a few firms within the financial services sector, including a bb IB and thoroughly enjoyed it. I wouldn't mind getting back into it
Looking at around a 30% pay rise compared to my current salary, which was never bad to begin with. This would push me up to £54k pa.
Huge scope for growth in terms of the role and responsibilities, dependent on the fund's growth. Launching a lot of new products in the coming year
I wouldn't lose touch with my data science skills because they're keen to put this to use where possible
Stable and good returns
Met with most of their team, all seem like a great bunch and very passionate about what they do

What's bad about the fund

They aren't the largest fund you'll find and they're obviously minuscule compared to my current employer
Far less job security
Career path is somewhat unclear
Risk of not getting enough investment and sales work, with them instead focusing on me doing more support type work

Most people are telling me I am insane to make the move. A few have told me life is too short and to take the risk whilst I'm young. I'm edging towards making the move because I am unhappy in my current position and don't see an improvement coming any time soon. What do the wise minds of GD think? Apologies for the long post, just wanted to cover everything.

garnett · 3 Nov 2017 at 23:28

Tingle said:
I am unhappy in my current position and don't see an improvement coming any time soon.

That's all you needed to post.

TNGL · 3 Nov 2017 at 23:30

garnett said:
That's all you needed to post.

I had a feeling somebody was going to focus on that

The thing that's keeping me is the prospect of an improvement eventually coming.

Caged · 4 Nov 2017 at 19:47

Tingle said:
I had a feeling somebody was going to focus on that The thing that's keeping me is the prospect of an improvement eventually coming.

Then move back into a consulting gig if you feel like it.

ultralaser · 4 Nov 2017 at 20:54

I'd say find out what makes you happy, IB and the like can be exciting but it can really burn you out and as a outsider you're never likely to be trusted by senior management these days. If you don't know what it is you really want to do which it (sounds like you don't) then make some money whilst you can. Build up some funds for a while and take a break and find out what you actually want to do. IB and fund management whilst well paid is pretty boring (just IMHO) . Money is relative, when you're young £20K doing something you really love, is probably better in the longer term than 60K doing something you hate. Remember that you'll be working for the next 44 years of your life, so pick something that you like.... just my advice

sigma · 5 Nov 2017 at 09:56

You're 21 and just graduated... so I'd say its more a case of welcome to the world of work. There are mundane parts of every role. As a n00b you're always going to get the less interesting (less complex) roles in a big company, put yourself in the shoes of the more experienced guys, why wouldn't they get the more interesting stuff? You still need to prove your worth to them.

Sure, keep trying roles out until you find one you like but be careful. How are you going to explain this move on your CV if you don't like.the next job? Would you move again in a short period? How long have you been there? Less than 6 months? That wouldn't look great to me if I was reviewing your CV.

I'd soak up as much training and development at the current place then you can always join a fund later in another 6 months or so.

booyaka · 5 Nov 2017 at 17:56

Your 21 years old - don't stress about it too much - go with your gut reaction.

TNGL · 5 Nov 2017 at 20:34

Gut feeling is to stay despite not liking it at the moment and like @sigma has said above, I can always join a fund later on. I've not been looking for too long at all and so it doesn't seem like such opportunities are too hard to come by at the moment. I've only been at my current employer for around 3 - 4 months and so I would find it difficult if I wanted to move jobs if I don't like the fund.

sigma · 5 Nov 2017 at 21:10

Good shout, also look at this this way. You're quickly learning what you don't like, this is a good thing!

Funnily enough I am considering joining a consultancy in this very field as a next move, purely for the breadth and depth on offer. I think it'll serve you well.

dowie · 5 Nov 2017 at 22:38

Can I sugest a third option? Consider going back to uni for a masters. Data science seems to be quite broad and some roles that would be called 'data analyst' or even 'business analyst' at some places end up being called 'data scientist' at others. Conversely some of the more hardcore "data science" roles would require more than a quantitative undergrad degree, some are pretty keen on/mostly just looking for PhDs/post docs etc... Not just big tech firms but even with say retailers some of the problems being worked on will generally be tackled by people with at least a relevant MSc.

Out of the two I'd be tempted by the fund, hedge fund jobs are usually inherently harder to land than consultancy simply because they're often rather fewer in number and because of the nature of a successful hedge fund (the relatively few employees and the amount they're able to pay) they tend to be far more selective. If you're not happy doing rather mundane work in a consultancy then I'd be tempted to move... obviously the point sigma mentions re: your CV is worth noting and it wouldn't be a good idea to move again in such a short period but it is perfectly explainable to leave your very first job after a short period of time if you then put in the time at the next one.

The issue perhaps is that you're not necessarily being hired to do investment related work - presumably this isn't a quant fund? Hedge funds, in particular the quantitative/systematic funds have always had "data scientists" - though they've generally been called "researchers" or "quantitative analysts" and/or occasionally "strategists" - they also typically have PhDs (though not exclusively).

Though given that you're not finding your current work particularly interesting and the experience you're currently gaining is from doing something rather mundane then that would seem to be a good reason to move on - it isn't like you're going to gain much from spending another 6 months on this database modelling project. Even if you don't end up contributing towards investment decisions/generating "alpha" I'd bet that spending the next 3 years in a hedge fund as a "data scientist" tackling a range of projects still gives you the option of moving to a consultancy (where you'd hopefully then be focused on buy side related project work given your experience rather than insurance stuff) whereas spending the next 3 years on rather mundane insurance related projects at a consultancy wouldn't lend itself as well to jumping across to a hedge fund... especially as you'd no longer be looking at entry level positions by then.

TNGL · 5 Nov 2017 at 23:24

dowie said:
Can I sugest a third option? Consider going back to uni for a masters. Data science seems to be quite broad and some roles that would be called 'data analyst' or even 'business analyst' at some places end up being called 'data scientist' at others. Conversely some of the more hardcore "data science" roles would require more than a quantitative undergrad degree, some are pretty keen on/mostly just looking for PhDs/post docs etc... Not just big tech firms but even with say retailers some of the problems being worked on will generally be tackled by people with at least a relevant MSc.

Out of the two I'd be tempted by the fund, hedge fund jobs are usually inherently harder to land than consultancy simply because they're often rather fewer in number and because of the nature of a successful hedge fund (the relatively few employees and the amount they're able to pay) they tend to be far more selective. If you're not happy doing rather mundane work in a consultancy then I'd be tempted to move... obviously the point sigma mentions re: your CV is worth noting and it wouldn't be a good idea to move again in such a short period but it is perfectly explainable to leave your very first job after a short period of time if you then put in the time at the next one.

The issue perhaps is that you're not necessarily being hired to do investment related work - presumably this isn't a quant fund? Hedge funds, in particular the quantitative/systematic funds have always had "data scientists" - though they've generally been called "researchers" or "quantitative analysts" and/or occasionally "strategists" - they also typically have PhDs (though not exclusively).

Though given that you're not finding your current work particularly interesting and the experience you're currently gaining is from doing something rather mundane then that would seem to be a good reason to move on - it isn't like you're going to gain much from spending another 6 months on this database modelling project. Even if you don't end up contributing towards investment decisions/generating "alpha" I'd bet that spending the next 3 years in a hedge fund as a "data scientist" tackling a range of projects still gives you the option of moving to a consultancy (where you'd hopefully then be focused on buy side related project work given your experience rather than insurance stuff) whereas spending the next 3 years on rather mundane insurance related projects at a consultancy wouldn't lend itself as well to jumping across to a hedge fund... especially as you'd no longer be looking at entry level positions by then.

I was waiting for your response

I've considered getting a masters but I'd need to work for a bit longer before I have the funds set aside for it. If I were to do a masters I'd probably move away from data science consulting (edit, just to make that clear) entirely and try to break into a quantitative function within a bank or a hedge fund. Within my current firm, there are quite a few consultants and data science managers who don't have master degrees who are on the hardcore projects... It just seems to be a case of getting that first break.

Yes, definitely in complete agreement about having to put more time into the next job if I do leave the consulting role after such a short period of time and so I wouldn't want to regret such a move. However, in terms of entry level hedge fund roles, they don't seem too hard to come by at the moment. I did actually have someone recruiting for a hedge fund approach me with something that would draw nicely upon my "data science" skillset and mix it with the investment side of things, however, the salary was far too low to ever contemplate the move and there was a strong BA element to it which I am keen to avoid for now. One thing my girlfriend keeps stressing (and I sort of agree with her to some extent) is I haven't been looking for long and quite a few roles within hedge funds have found there way to me, so perhaps if I hold out a little longer there might be something better that comes up? By the same token, there might not be and I might not realise how good a position I may currently be in.

Correct, the fund which I could be moving to is not a quant fund. In fact, it's a credit fund, mainly dealing in relatively vanilla products such as bonds, TRSs and CDSs. I've tried looking for quant entry level roles but as you can imagine, they do all require a masters degree and seeing as I don't have any real quant experience to compensate for my lack of a masters, the vast majority of such opportunities are off limits to me for now.

I think if I move to the fund, they would definitely utilise my "data science" skills but because they aren't too big (and don't have other people in the firm with such skills), my concern is would they know how to use them in the best way (in terms of using them to support investment decisions)? I may know how to carry out a good piece of in-depth analysis and predictive modelling, but will they (the PMs) know how to best utilise this? A concern of mine is they won't know how to best use them. Either way, the role has a more traditional sales and investment side to it which is nice and helps to mix it up; there's also a support side to it too which I'm dubious about. Though, they have said they're flexible in letting me focus on whatever area within the fund I wish to, so long as my core assignment/duties are taken care of.

If I spend a few more years at the consultancy it will probably be too late to jump into a hedge fund at anything but entry level, especially if this database modelling malarkey keeps itself going. Moving within one year's time seems sensible, it's just deciding if the current role I could move to is the 'right' one or if I should hold off and wait for a better opportunity where they may be able to better utilise my skills and avoid the support side of things.

Would you hold off and wait or would you move?

mid_gen · 6 Nov 2017 at 07:57

I would think very very carefully before walking away from a gig at a big multinational after less than a year in your first job out of university. It will mean your CV will go in the bin first pass at any other big firms you apply for (you'd need at least a 2-3 year stint at one place to repair that damage realistically). Not saying it's the right or wrong decision, but be aware that it has consequences.

Personally I would stay on with the big corporation to fully qualify your Data Science professional experience for a few years and build a network of connections to tap up for a future move. You're on a gravy train career path in that field.

* Note - you cannot trust *anything* that a potential employer says about a role, unless it is in writing and in the contract. When they say they are flexible about letting you focus on whatever area in the business you want, they are lying. You will have to do what they need you to do and that's the end of it.

You're earning decent money, but aren't doing exactly the work you would ideally be doing and it's kinda boring? Welcome to Real Life, the better version than most manage. You're young, you don't know what kind of career suits you yet. Took me over 10 years to settle on the job that was the right fit.

flibbage0 · 9 Nov 2017 at 22:42

Just out of interest, would one need to go back to university to do a data science related job?

dowie · 10 Nov 2017 at 13:32

Tingle said:
Moving within one year's time seems sensible, it's just deciding if the current role I could move to is the 'right' one or if I should hold off and wait for a better opportunity where they may be able to better utilise my skills and avoid the support side of things.

Would you hold off and wait or would you move?

I mean when presented with the two options my answer is that I'd probably risk it and take the hedge fund job as moving back to a consultancy role isn't likely to be too hard after that but moving the other way in future could be. I guess it depends on how confident you are at getting thees offers and/or whether you think your current work is going to change/improve in future - is there potential for a more interesting project after 6 months... But also, more importantly, what sort of role you want to work towards - surely data science work related to insurance is going to be rather different - I'd pick the career that is more in line with your goals and most importantly the sort of area/problems you'd enjoy solving. Basically that is the most important thing when it comes to work, finding something you enjoy.

flibbage0 said:
Just out of interest, would one need to go back to university to do a data science related job?

I think it depends on the data science role - there are various that generally wouldn't be suitable to someone who hadn't at least got a relevant masters... well if we're talking about going from university to said role. There are plenty of others that might well be called 'data analyst' etc.. at another firm and just require some basic stats knowledge.

toshj · 12 Nov 2017 at 00:31

One of the key aspects is what size is the fund - AUM - and also performance. If you're going to be playing a role in the marketing and investor relations team, then those two points are key. If the fund has a decent track record over a number of years and also a solid AUM, then asset raising can be quite fun. Then again, trying to market the fund without a track record or with little AUM behind you and you'll be banging your head against a brick wall each day.

From a consultancy perspective, you'll more than likely be able to return to that industry relatively easily if the buy side move doesn't work out. Moving into an investment role/marketing from consultancy isn't necessarily an easy move to achieve, so it may be worthwhile having a crack at it and taking a view in a year or so. It'll be a massively different environment to go into, so I'd be prepared for a bit of a shock - but that's not a particularly negative aspect.

ErNciLator · 23 Jan 2018 at 20:41

suggest not jumping too much early in career - getting 2/3 years at one place/role carries a lot of weight.

randomshenans · 23 Jan 2018 at 21:37

**** it, you're 21. If you can't **** up a few choices by taking risks then, when can you? I would take the risk, worst thing that could happen is you have to change it, or you don't like it... you don't like where you are now, so are you any worse off? Roll the dice is what I would do if I was unhappy. I don't like what if's.

dowie · 23 Jan 2018 at 21:42

did you move in the end OP?

TNGL · 23 Jan 2018 at 22:17

dowie said:
did you move in the end OP?

Not yet. I did receive an offer from the hedge fund I'm referring to in the OP but they were just too small for me to make the move and I struggled to see how I may grow within that role. However, I did recently interview at LGIM for a really interesting position but found out this week that I was unsuccessful. I am still on the lookout for new roles, although for now I'm taking my foot off the gas slightly; it does become exhausting after a while.

MikeTimbers · 3 Feb 2018 at 19:30

As an ex Deloitte, Capgemini and Accenture consultant I sympathise but as others have said, moving jobs too frequently and quickly looks crap on a CV. Put in another couple of years before moving on. When you do move, try to move into industry away from consulting and do a few years doing the job. Then go back to consulting as someone with more than just "talk".