MPs vote that ‘animals can’t feel pain.

Trusty · 22 Nov 2017 at 16:41

Greebo said:
The 1999 EU protected all animals as they were sentient. The Welfare Act just covers domestic animals.

Protected animal”
An animal is a “protected animal” for the purposes of this Act if—

(a)it is of a kind which is commonly domesticated in the British Islands,

(b)it is under the control of man whether on a permanent or temporary basis, or

(c)it is not living in a wild state.

Therefore with the repeal of the EU sentient laws, you cannot be guilty of any offence if you say decide to go torture a wild animal as they are not sentient and there is no law to protect them anymore.

So to a degree the Welfare Act was more detailed and went further than the EU law with regards to domesticated animals but our MPs have just voted out any protection for wild animals.

Are you saying it doesn't apply to farm animals then?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...vote-animals-are-not-sentient-protocol-uk-law

LOAM · 22 Nov 2017 at 17:06

I don't know what's worse really, saying "we don't believe animals are sentient" or "we do believe they are sentient but we don't give a ****".

Surely anyone, everyone needs to question this? I do not remember the Conservatives stating before the election that they would do this, its truly horrific.

CaptainComedy · 22 Nov 2017 at 17:25

aliens be like "now that's cancer"

Greebo · 22 Nov 2017 at 20:56

Trusty said:
Are you saying it doesn't apply to farm animals then?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...vote-animals-are-not-sentient-protocol-uk-law

Don't know. I listed the definition. Do farm animals fulfil the three criteria? If so then it applies. If it doesn't then it doesn't apply. Wild animals certainly don;t though.

hornetstinger · 22 Nov 2017 at 21:05

My guess is to allow fox hunting?

Trusty · 22 Nov 2017 at 21:11

Greebo said:
Don't know. I listed the definition. Do farm animals fulfil the three criteria? If so then it applies. If it doesn't then it doesn't apply. Wild animals certainly don;t though.

I take it you don't kill flies then?

robfosters · 22 Nov 2017 at 21:12

hornetstinger said:
My guess is to allow fox hunting?

I don't think they'd get that through parliament any more. Different in the old days when it was full of toffs, but now there are too many tory MP's from a more normal background, and most reject fox hunting. There would be a lot of rebels, and it would be a huge mistake for the tories to make. The public would turn against them.

Nasher · 23 Nov 2017 at 21:18

This is almost certainly a move to try and justify fox hunting via the back door. They can kill the fox with hounds and there's conveniently no law protecting the wild fox any more.

Tunney · 23 Nov 2017 at 22:34

Moses said:
https://order-order.com/2017/11/23/viral-animal-sentience-fake-news-story-seen-by-2-million-people/

There’s a difference between declaring in the Commons that you believe animals are sentient and enshrining it in law, no?

Tunney · 23 Nov 2017 at 23:51

Moses said:
Why's the Brexit bill, and the way they were hoping to do it, the appropriate way?

Because EU withdrawal bill will give ministers the power to change laws without parliament for years after Brexit.

But that’s beside the point. Declaring something in the Commons is not the same as enshrining it in law. That’s what your link fails to differentiate.

FoxEye · 24 Nov 2017 at 00:15

Step 1. Agree wild animals do not feel fear or pain.
Step 2. Agree disabled people and the elderly do not feel fear or pain.
Step 3. Iain Duncan Smith for PM.
Step 4. Watch the world burn.

Tunney · 24 Nov 2017 at 09:45

Moses said:
Can you see the problem with just copying this into UK law?

No-one has proposed to “just copy” that into UK law.

Here’s the proposed ammendment:

EU Protocol on animal sentience

Obligations and rights contained within the EU Protocol on animal sentience set out in Article 13 of Title II of the Lisbon Treaty shall be recognised and available in domestic law on and after exit day, and shall be enforced and followed accordingly.

Transferring obligations and rights doesn’t mean a simple copy and paste job.