MSI GeForce GTX 670 OC Twin Frozr PE

[mikeo]

MSI GeForce GTX 670 OC Twin Frozr PE

As there doesn't seem to be much mentioned about this card in the forum yet, I thought that I would pass on my initial findings.

We will ignore the fact that upgrading from an MSI 580 Twin Frozr ( and a very nice card it was) to a 670 GTX was not the most sensible/sane thing to do at 1080 on a single monitor. Especially as even a 680 at best would only give me around +30% improvement. But basically I just fancied a change and no pockets in a shroud, as I'm always fond of saying.

Decided on the 670 rather than the 680 for the obvious reason that it's around £100 cheaper. Looked at the over-clocked 670's to get as near to the 680 as possible out of the box, while saving some money. Top tier cards just loose far to much money (don't I know that one ).

It basically came down to either the Gigabyte Windforce, the ASUS TOP, or the MSI PE. Having owned a 460 HAWK and a 580 Twin Frozr, I quite like the cooling on these and build quality. Would have probably gone for the ASUS TOP, but for all the reported problems and the fact that it looks like it might now have been "pulled from the shelves". Decided (maybe unfairly) against the Gigabyte card as my original 580 was a windforce and it would not run stable at stock vaults and suffered slightly from coil whine. Not looking for a flame war over what card is best, these are just my personal thoughts.

Couple of benchmark results:

1) Heaven 3.0 (settings as per Heaven thread on OCuk) 69.3 FPS, Score 1,746
2) 3DMark11 P8,472
3) 3DVantage Basic settings 38,331 (PhysX on).

Only game played so far to any extent, Alan Wake and that runs solid 60 FPS at highest settings. And it appears quite a demanding game for DX9.

So far my test / experience is that it is around +30% faster than the 580 GTX that I previously had (IE. around what I expected).

Pros:
- Custom PCB with improved PWM.
- Cooled memory and power module.
- Military class components.
- 3 year warranty.
- 22C idle (bit nippy up here in Scotland at the moment).
- Max temp of 57C after one hour of Heaven looping.
- Fan noise. What noise. Except on start up when the fan goes into reverse at 100% for 20 seconds (dust removal), it's totally quiet (well to me it is).
Certainly quieter than my MSI 580 Twin Frozr under load, not like that was a noisy card either. Aluminium PC case sat on the desk about 2 foot away.
- No coil whine.
- Boosts to 1162Mhz solid under load.
- Latest version of Afterburner unlocks three way voltage control. Though not played with this yet. If I have a go, I'll post an update.
- Out of the box as fast as a stock 680 GTX.
- Also looks good and feels well made.

Cons:
- To be totally honest, at the moment I can't think of anything.

Question... The best 670 out there? No not really, but definitely one of the best. Like most things in life, it's a personal choice.

 

[mikeo]

Will you be overclocking this card fella?

If so can you fill us in on how to go about it? I have the same card..

Cheers

At some point I shall be having a go at overclocking. Initially I like to use a card at stock for a couple of weeks to make sure it's 100% stable.

From what I understand... To overclock this card, assuming you are using the latest version of Afterburner (IE. 2.2.3)

1) Increase the Power Limit to max.
2) Then increase the core clock bit at a time (stress testing in between each increment) until you reach the max stable Core clock at the stock voltage.
3) If you want to go further. Then increase the Core voltage a small amount and loop back to point 2) above.
At some point you will reach the limit that the card can make.

Try to keep temps below 70C, as I believe Kepler chips start to throttle above this.

As to the fan speed. Three options really.
1) Leave on auto.
2) Design a custom fan profile.
3) Set to 100%. Though I think you will find this much to loud for day-to-day use.

I'll post back at some point when I have a go.

Good luck if you decide to have a go before this.

PS. Here is a decent general guide to overclocking these sorts of cards.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1265110/the-gtx-670-overclocking-master-guide

 

[mikeo]

1.8v is sick!

+100 mv showing up in GPUZ as 1.175v, is that the max a 670 can do?

P.S Do you have any Pics of your setup on this forum? I have the same case and Interested in custom cooling.

As far as I am aware... no software tool can read the voltage off these cards. You'll need a DMM (Digital Multi Meter) to do this.

 

[mikeo]

This card Looks Amazing however I'm not sure if I should get it over a similarly priced 7970...

Difficult call. Both are excellent cards.

 

[mikeo]

Soz @mikeo for taking thread away

No problem

I think you will find that the voltage adjustment does work, you just need a DMM to see the change.

 

[mikeo]

Can increasing the power limit damage the card?

It shouldn't. But then again, very little in life is guaranteed

All that will happen, is that your card at some point in your testing (as you increase clock speed and/or voltage) is that your card will reach it's limit overclocking wise and not go any further. I can't imagine MSI sanctioning Unwinder (the guy who develops Afterburner) to allow an increase that was too high and would damage your card. I suspect +100mv is pretty conservative.

Though as these cards run pretty close to a stock 680 out of the box (main reason I bought it... plus good experience/s with other MSI products), I'm not personally in too much of a hurry to experiment with mine. I will at some point though, if only out of interest.

Only my personal opinion (so no flame war please folks) but I think some folks are getting a little hysterical almost if their card (that's 670/680's in general) won't OC as high as other peoples. Lets be honest, how much is even +100MHz going to give you in games? Though I do appreciate the thought "that if it's free" then why not, or even just for the fun of it etc. Up to individuals though what they want to do with their own purchase/s obviously

Though I'm the first to admit that the games I'm currently playing (single monitor at 1080) are not really stressing this card to it's full even at stock (EG. Skyrim, Alan Wake, ME3). Though I do appreciate there are more demanding games out there that do and maybe these might benefit from more grunt.

 

[mikeo]

No damage can come from raising the power limit, it's just a number used in driver level calculations to adjust voltage and frequency

No disrespect, but this is not what's really being discussed here I think (IE. the power limit.) This card (and the 680 Lightening) does have direct voltage adjustment.
IE. +100mv does actually add this to the voltage. Or so says Unwinder (the Afterburner main man).

 

[mikeo]

OptimaLnrg

Thanks for the detail reply. Put much more eloquently than I could

No I wasn't talking about the power limit in post #23. I was talking about voltage offset adjustment.

And certainly not disputing that only increasing the power limit wont do any damage. But then again, I was talking about voltage adjustment. And pump to many extra volts through and I suspect something would eventually go pop. But as I commented earlier "I suspect +100mv is pretty conservative", so can't see this frying the chip myself.

Was not aware of the issue with ""apply overclocking at system startup" I'll have a look in the AB notes and have a go myself and see what it looks like.

Thanks for your input, appreciated.

PS. Just realised why the confusion, because I answered the question "Can increasing the power limit damage the card?".... Where I actually started talking about voltage increases. Put it down to my advancing years

 

[mikeo]

In the end I just could not resist!

Results of my first attempt at OCing.

Using Afterburner 2.2.3.

- Increased power limit to max.
- Increased Core clock by +100MHz.

My normal max boost in Heaven 3.0 is 1,162MHz.

The above changes hence gave me a max boost of 1,263MHz

Ran Heaven benchmarks a couple of times and all looked well.

- Max temp only hit 57C (still quite cool up here). At this, the fan is only running at 42% and anything below 50% can't be heard over my fairly quiet case / fans.
- Power% in Afterburner only hit max of 87%

So left heaven running and went for a cup of tea. Unluckily looking at the AB log, it failed after about 10 minutes (the usual error message that Heaven appears to kick out with an unstable OC). Temp, power% and Core Clock looked OK until it failed (IE. nice straight line). Though just as it failed, the core dropped to 1,020... don't know if that means anything (obviously it's the default 3D speed for this card)!?

So looks like it would require a slight voltage tweak to get a +100MHz bump in the boost.

Can't say that I'm too upset (at all really). Would obviously have been nice to get a core that would do a nice big OC without extra voltage. But that's the silicon lottery for you.

Still a nice card though and more than happy with it

PS. The only thing I miss off this card, is the ability to read the voltage via software. Or failing that, a set of DMM break out points on the card would have been nice (like my 460 HAWK had).

 

[mikeo]

Had another go.

Tried +90 core clock... lasted slightly longer in Heaven loop.
Then tried +80 ... giving a top boost of 1,243MHz and this seemed OK after 40 minute run of Heaven. Though need to do some more testing.

Temp still only hitting 57C max and highest power% only 85%. So looks like that may be the max on the core without extra voltage. And all AB graphs a straight line (IE. no oscillation).

TBC

 

[mikeo]

Just ordered one of these. Was seriously considering a 7970 vapour X, but I do have a slight preference for Team Green, and the MSI was cheaper, so it'll be getting installed tomorrow

I'll be interested to hear how you get on and what your out of the box boost is. Some seen to hit 1200MHz without any tweaking.

Seems to be a bit of a lottery as to what the core will do. But then again, that's pretty much always been the way of it. Even out of the box, I think this card is pretty decent. And in my case, the overclocking potential was not the primary reason for my purchase.

From all the tests and forums that I've read and sad man that I am, I've read pretty much everything out there about the 670 that's going... around 1150MHz seems obtainable by most, with something like 1250MHz with a bit of tweaking. Some get higher, some lower. And that seems to be the way of it across all the manufacturers. Not convinced that any of the manufacturers do any really effective binning, or cherry picking etc. Just need to look at the ASUS TOP fiasco to see that. Though quite aware this is a nice card and it was on my list when I was looking.

Enjoy

 

[mikeo]

Looks like the voltage adjustment definitely works for this card, there's been some dispute on other forums (EG. overclock.net).

Tried +100MHz on the core again but this time with +20mv and this has just passed 2+ hours of Heaven 3.0 at highest settings. Where it would not last 10 minutes without a voltage bump. Think I'm happy with that at the moment. Solid boost to 1263MHz and temps still only 57C max (though a bit colder up here today).

Think I'll play around with the memory now.

 

[mikeo]

running at stock, got a peak of 1241 core, but usually runs around 1150. not tried clocking it.

anyone found a way to quieten this card down before getting into os? and i know about the dust removal phase for ~30s.

making bios changes has the fan at about 100%

Looks like you got a good card. Mine at stock "only" hits 1163MHz.

As far as the fan running at 100% in reverse at startup. As far as I'm aware, this can not be disabled. Can't say it bothers me too much, and I know it says it runs for 30 seconds... but mine stops doing it when it gets to the Windows logon screen and for me, that's only some 18 seconds! I'm making a guess here, but I think it stops doing this when the drivers load. As if you try and run this card in safe mode with just the VGA drivers installed, it seems to run at 100% all the time (well it did for me).

PS. Not quite sure I understand your final comment "making bios changes has the fan at about 100% "??? or is this a reference to what I've just said above about the fan running at 100% until the Nvidia drivers load?

 

[mikeo]

1189MHz on mine on the core during Haven. Happy with that, but the card is quite loud. I'm used to the Accelero Twin Turbo 2, and the 670 PE is like a high pitched hoover compared to that.

Still, small sacrifices and all that.

Another decent boost (damn... both higher than mine ).

"but the card is quite loud." ... really? what fan % is it running at under load? I suppose ambient room temp comes into this, one advantage of Scotland... is that it never gets warm up here Mines never gone temp wise over 60C (in games) and at that it's running at 43% and anything under 50% I can't hear over my pretty quiet Gentle typhoon case fans (but I am getting on a bit ). Though never obviously experienced the " Accelero Twin Turbo 2".

 

[mikeo]

when i start my system up and go to bios the card is 100% reverse for 30s, there is a dip in volume but then resumes at 100%.

getting to windows is a similar time so doesn't normally bother me, was just wondering what actually quietens it down?

e.g. if went to linux would it run at 100% until X is started (when graphics driver starts) or would it eventually quieten down on its own?

Only guessing, but I think it's when the drivers load. As I don't think it's a fixed time myself. I've timed it myself with a stop watch and definitely for me, it's some 18 seconds and that coincides exactly with the Windows login prompt appearing.

 

[mikeo]

scritchyrat

If you are going over 50% on the fan speed, then I can maybe appreciate that you would start to hear it. And at 60% I could well imagine it's getting more than a bit noticeable.

Corsair 600T, nice case. I'll be interested to hear what difference that makes.

Yes, I think ambient temp makes a big difference. Hence why I think a lot of the reviews, when they quote load temps, are pretty meaningless. As more often than not, they don't give the room temp at the time of testing!

 

[mikeo]

I just ordered the same card today.
Itl look sweet only ft02

Hi... Is that the case where the add in cards are fitted vertically, rather than the more standard horizontally? If so, I'll be interested to hear how well a card like this works in this sort of arrangement. Never had a case with this sort of layout before, so be interesting to see what the cards temps are like.

 

[mikeo]

ndaar

I think that was a pretty good upgrade myself... every cloud has a silver lining... as they say

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/647?vs=547

 

[mikeo]

O'well. That's my OCing experiment over.

Power Limit to max
+20mv on core
+100MHz on core
+400 on memory.

That translates to approx. +45% performance boost over my MSI 580 Twin Frozr OC. So a worthwhile upgrade I think. I usually try to aim for around +50% performance improvement before I upgrade, so that's close enough for me

As temps still under 60C and power limit only hitting around 95% (according to AfterBurner), I suspect I could push both the core and the memory a bit more, but I'm not greedy, that will do me.

 

[mikeo]

Nelly ... thanks for that. Sad man that I am, I've already read every page on that thread Though as usual, you are pretty much dependant on how good an OC'er your particular core is.

Baron C ... thanks for that, an interesting read. So looks like he should be OK.