Navi going into the PS5/Next, good news for PC graphics?

[Satchfanuk]

If the rumours coming from Charlie @ SA are true, then the next PS console (due to land possibly before 2018 ends) will have Navi based graphics built into it's APU.

Does this bode well for PC graphics if the silicon for Navi is this close to production?

Not sure the rumours give us much to go on in terms of specs but it must surely be a good sign if Sony are happy to use it and not base the PS5 around Vega?

 

[flyinmunky]

If the rumours coming from Charlie @ SA are true, then the next PS console (due to land possibly before 2018 ends)

PS5 has zero chance of releasing this year, end of 2019 is possible, more likely 2020.

 

[Satchfanuk]

You say that but Charlie was right about the last round of consoles, as he likes to keep reminding everyone

 

[Samwell]

PS5 is not ready before end of 2019, as it will be at 7nm. Before it'll be way too expensive to produce and no foundry can really produce it for a 2018 launch. Beside that, a 2 year refresh cycle from PS4 Pro is too fast. PS5 2019 fits good.

 

[Spyhop]

The consoles usually get a variation of some old-ish graphics architecture. What's different about this time that would cause it to get a totally cutting-edge graphics architecture?

 

[Freddie1980]

If the rumours coming from Charlie @ SA are true, then the next PS console (due to land possibly before 2018 ends) will have Navi based graphics built into it's APU.

Does this bode well for PC graphics if the silicon for Navi is this close to production?

Not sure the rumours give us much to go on in terms of specs but it must surely be a good sign if Sony are happy to use it and not base the PS5 around Vega?

Not really, Xbox and PS4 use Polaris but it doesn't give seem to given AMD users any competitive edge when it comes to console ports. Sony uses it's own API which seems to work wonders with AMD's hardware, PC users are stuck with DX11 and a DX12 API which is yet to really show PC users what it can do.

 

[Satchfanuk]

Very true, Sony's API does a great job of getting the most out of the hardware. DX12 is much closer to the metal than a Windows API has ever been but still seems to hold back the hardware's full potential.
Either that or the developers can't be bothered to optimise properly since the PC hardware is more than powerful enough to cover up their crappy code

 

[bigmike20vt]

The consoles usually get a variation of some old-ish graphics architecture. What's different about this time that would cause it to get a totally cutting-edge graphics architecture?

Not true. PS1 smoked pc at time of launch, the (real) Xbox 1 had a geforce 3 specced around the ti500 iirc which was high end and the Xbox 360 launched with a Radeon superior to any in a pc ATI card at the time. It is only really the current PS4 xb1 generation which launched with weaksauce parts imo as well as the Xbox 360 generation being stretched out FAR too far.

Despite its hardware limitations 1st party PS4 titles look as good as running on a highish end pc imo. Imagine if ps5 actually launches with decent instead of mid range laptop hardware

 

[Satchfanuk]

The consoles usually get a variation of some old-ish graphics architecture. What's different about this time that would cause it to get a totally cutting-edge graphics architecture?

Wasn't the original PS4 gpu based on GCN though? You could argue it's a bit like the chicken and the egg, which came first and who led who, if you get my drift

If PS5 is Navi based, it could be a great way for AMD to test the arch in a smaller chip first? Of course Navi is meant to be the first truly modular gpu from AMD so it could be a single module going into the PS5 apu?

 

[Rroff]

Not true. PS1 smoked pc at time of launch, the (real) Xbox 1 had a geforce 3 specced around the ti500 iirc which was high end and the Xbox 360 launched with a Radeon superior to any in a pc ATI card at the time. It is only really the current PS4 xb1 generation which launched with weaksauce parts imo as well as the Xbox 360 generation being stretched out FAR too far.

Despite its hardware limitations 1st party PS4 titles look as good as running on a highish end pc imo. Imagine if ps5 actually launches with decent instead of mid range laptop hardware

Can't really agree with smoked the PC in general - in some cases consoles launched with hot GPUs but in almost every case nVidia launched a faster GPU either about the same time or just after the console launch - by the time the original Xbox hit Europe proper the 4 series GeForces were just starting to roll out which smoked the GeForce 3, etc.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Can't really agree with smoked the PC in general - in some cases consoles launched with hot GPUs but in almost every case nVidia launched a faster GPU either about the same time or just after the console launch - by the time the original Xbox hit Europe proper the 4 series GeForces were just starting to roll out which smoked the GeForce 3, etc.

I said at launch...... xbox launched 2001, (November iirc - MS seem to do everything in november for the "holidays" i guess) geforce 4 launched 2002 (i cheated and googled on that)..... and the PS1 did smoke even really high end pcs at the time... this is the only one i can think of which had such a big difference, usually it is on or around parity with a highish end pc... but back to PS1 i remember being stunned (in a bad way) when i saw wipeout running on my mates £1500 PC compared to my PS1, and it was not an isolated case either. PC caught up and took the lead of course when dedicated gaming gpus came out, but the PS1 held its own for a while after. cpu in the xbox1 was not great, closer to a celeron than a PIII but generally the cpu does not tend to be the bottleneck in most console games.

 

[Rroff]

I said at launch...... xbox launched 2001, (November iirc) geforce 4 launched 2002 (i cheated and googled on that)..... and the PS1 did smoke even really high end pcs at the time... this is the only one i can think of which had such a big difference, usually it is on or around parity with a highish end pc... but back to PS1 i remember being stunned (in a bad way) when i saw wipeout running on my mates £1500 PC compared to my PS1, and it was not an isolated case either. PC caught up and took the lead of course when dedicated gaming gpus came out, but the PS1 held its own for a while after. cpu in the xbox1 was not great, closer to a celeron than a PIII but generally the cpu does not tend to be the bottleneck in most console games.

Especially in Europe though by the time the xbox was properly available the PC had moved on.

Around the time of the PS1 though the PC wasn't in a great place for 3D accelerated graphics - you had a load of fledgling brands many that didn't even survive into the next year or so and lots of things like needing a separate 2D and 3D card and a lot of people were still using software 3D ran from the CPU heh. It wasn't really until the Voodoo 1 and the original Riva 128 (well the TNT really) that things on the PC side started to come together for proper 3D graphics.

I had a Rage II+ 3D back then - it didn't even do Open GL without a software translation layer and D3D was hit and miss - adding in a Voodoo 1 was huge.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Rage II... lol... I had a diamond S3 trio around that era iirc, that was a bag of balls. I did get the very 1st iteration of the powerVR which came with an (at the time amazing) demo of Ultim@te Race but other than that not much came out of it. luckily I played a lot of games like doom, wing commander and then the RTS games like Warcraft so i did not miss out too much.... but it was my canopus 3DFX voodoo 1 (with an extra 2mb on board wooooo! )which i imported from the states which really kicked off some quality high end pc gaming (screamer rally what a game!)

my 1st ever gaming pc was an ibm chip, a 486 DX3 "blue lightning" 75, with a 25mhz fsb. it was such a piece of crap, it ran amazingly if i overclocked the fsb to make it at DX3 100 but I had to run with the side off and a desk fan blowing on it (no fans in pcs back then) and even then you could fry eggs on the heatsink..... £1400 that cost me with a Sound Blaster 16 and 2x cdrom. it was so bad i swore i would never buy a pc again and learned how to build my own. came with a nice games bundle though all on 1 CD.

 

[Rroff]

but it was my canopus 3DFX voodoo 1 (with an extra 2mb on board wooooo! )which i imported from the states which really kicked off some quality high end pc gaming

Yeah I had one of the Obsidian variants of the Voodoo 1 so it could do higher resolution - just happened upon it one day in a local computer place who I don't think had any idea what they were selling (it was well below the normal price).

 

[scritchyrat]

Didn't Power VR come with Tomb Raider? I seem to remember that being the selling point for it (God, must be well over 20 years ago!)

 

[Rroff]

Yeah I'm really struggling with my memory of back then - a few years ago I'd have remembered everything.

 

[scritchyrat]

Late 90s, early 00s. Gee, I wonder what we could have been doing that's messed up our memories so much

 

[bigmike20vt]

Didn't Power VR come with Tomb Raider? I seem to remember that being the selling point for it (God, must be well over 20 years ago!)

maybe the PCX2 did but not mine (the PCX1) (main hardware difference was the pcx2 did bilinear filtering iirc) mine didnt even come with Ulim@te race full game, but a 1 course demo.

btw this is a nice blast from the past. I dont think they could have found more drier "dull" people to talk about the hardware in the vid at the bottom. the narrator is a little better.

https://www.imgtec.com/blog/powervr-at-25-the-story-of-a-graphics-revolution/

btw if OP is annoyed at my segue feel free to tell me to buzz off

actually back on topic.... it has been so so long since AMD competed at the sharp end for gpus that i just do not see them being relevant for me personally. (it may bode well for consoles however).

there is just too much in nvidias favour now, and not just performance either. when supported properly hardware physx is great.... it may be good news for the mid range gamers however if amd can compete on price at least.

i hope i am wrong however. their new CPUs are nice so .... maybe... but i would not put money on it.

 

[Rroff]

Late 90s, early 00s. Gee, I wonder what we could have been doing that's messed up our memories so much

Funny what does stick in the mind - I could still tell you the specs of everyone's PC at the first LAN party I did back then and recall some guy turned up with some ridiculously expensive Fostex headphones a seperates amp the size of a desk connected off an AWE64 soundcard heh - while everyone else just made do with earphones or the odd PC headset.

 

[Cooper]

Sony will only unveil the PS5 when they're certain AMD can deliver the next gen 7nm APU at acceptable failure rates and in quantity.

I bet they want to unveil PS5 in Feb 2019 with a Q4 2019 release date, but if AMD let them down, it will have to delay the release until Q1/Q2 2020.

6c 12 thread Ryzen CPU @ 2-3Ghz
16GB GDDR6
12 Tflop+ GPU

Anything less and it won't be much of an upgrade either.