Navi going into the PS5/Next, good news for PC graphics?

[DELETED_195422]

This thread should be moved to the console sub forum.

 

[bigmike20vt]

6c 12 thread Ryzen CPU @ 2-3Ghz
16GB GDDR6
12 Tflop+ GPU
Anything less and it won't be much of an upgrade either.

so you expect the PS5 gpu to outperform a 1080ti? if it does, and is backwards compatible, i will probably have to get one because when you take into acount how consoles punch above their weight compared to pc equivalent specs, that would be a nice machine indeed.

but i am not expecting it to be honest.. hell forgetting the console side of things, i am not sure amd will be able to produce any apu (ie with the gpu built into the cpu) at that level of performance, let alone one cheap enough to go into a console in 18 - 24 months time.

I have commented in other threads about how consoles used to trade blows on hardware with high end pcs at launch.... and i do stand by that, but imo those days are gone, unless sony want to take a massive loss leader on the hardware and have discrete gpu in there.

 

[D.P.]

Ps5 might well have something based off navi, that is not really surprising, but you are lookign at the end of 2019 at the earliest.

 

[ubersonic]

Not true. PS1 smoked pc at time of launch, the (real) Xbox 1 had a geforce 3 specced around the ti500 iirc which was high end

That's not really true, the PS1 smoked office PCs at the time, a decent machine could still run rings around it (this is why Quake wasn't even released on the PS1 and Quake 2 looked like a joke). As for the Xbox it had a modified Geforce 3 and launched around the same time as the vastly superior Geforce 4.

Historically speaking console hardware has almost always lagged behind PC hardware (which makes sense as Consoles have the heat/space factor to contend with).

 

[BigBANGtheory]

I really hope AMD can produce a hyper scale solution for graphics that works i.e. building blocks that can scale in performance without all the compatibility issues

 

[Cooper]

so you expect the PS5 gpu to outperform a 1080ti?

Well when you think that the PS4 Pro has a 4.2Tflop GPU & the Xbox One X has 6Tflops, a PS5 will certainly have to deliver 1080Ti levels of performance, even if it doesn't quite match it in terms of raw Tflops, given the extra performance consoles get out of PC equivalent GPU's. So maybe they could get an 9-10Tflop part to perform like a 1080Ti, which should be possible on a 7nm die by late 2019.

If a PS5 doesn't outperform the Xbox One X by a very substantial margin, I really don't see the point of it.

 

[bigmike20vt]

That's not really true, the PS1 smoked office PCs at the time, a decent machine could still run rings around it (this is why Quake wasn't even released on the PS1 and Quake 2 looked like a joke). As for the Xbox it had a modified Geforce 3 and launched around the same time as the vastly superior Geforce 4.

Historically speaking console hardware has almost always lagged behind PC hardware (which makes sense as Consoles have the heat/space factor to contend with).

i think you need to fact check your dates

quake launched 2 years AFTER the PS1 by which time PCs had massively improved at the time. 3D games - like wipeout, ridge racer , toshinden embarrassed anything running on even high end pcs at the time. this was a time before 3d accelerators and it was all done in software on pc.

of course it is hard to do comparisons now because any videos you find running thse games are not using hardware which was out at launch but using newer machine on much better hardware. (i will never forget trying to run geoff crammonds F1GP2 in "high res" esp on monaco. i think my cpu occupancy still went over 100% even on top notch pcs 3 years after launch. Back then moores law was still just about a thing, and so 12 months made a huge difference in pc power.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Well when you think that the PS4 Pro has a 4.2Tflop GPU & the Xbox One X has 6Tflops, a PS5 will certainly have to deliver 1080Ti levels of performance, even if it doesn't quite match it in terms of raw Tflops, given the extra performance consoles get out of PC equivalent GPU's. So maybe they could get an 9-10Tflop part to perform like a 1080Ti, which should be possible on a 7nm die by late 2019.

If a PS5 doesn't outperform the Xbox One X by a very substantial margin, I really don't see the point of it.

ps5 will surely outperform the xbox1 x but i am not so sure about the margins... as for the point.... for me the point will be sonys 1st party titles..... and possible new VR HMD with titles not being bogged down with having to be compatible with the vanilla ps4.

 

[JediFragger]

12 Tflop+ GPU

Nah, be about 8 imo (double current PS4 Pro)

 

[ubersonic]

i think you need to fact check your dates

quake launched 2 years AFTER the PS1

You're looking at the dates wrong, Quake launched in the middle of 1996, the PS1 became widely available at the end of 1995 (no a Japan only paper launch for Christmas 1994 doesn't count), that's just over half a year not two. Quake was then ported to the Sega Saturn (and eventually the N64) but not the PS1 because the hardware couldn't hack it. Yes that's right, developers decided porting a game that ran fine on PCs a couple of years old to a console that had been out six months was a waste of time because the quality would have to be reduced so much.

3D games - like wipeout, ridge racer , toshinden embarrassed anything running on even high end pcs at the time.

Not true, I actually got Wipeout at launch (which was delayed so the PS1 port could come out first /grr) and it was noticeably better on my PC than my friends PS1. As for Ridge Racer there were already better racing games out on PC (I.E Need for Speed, Screamer).

of course it is hard to do comparisons now

I don't need to, I owned a PS1 and Saturn at launch and my father had a high end PC, I know what the scene was like on all three at the time because I did the comparisons at the time.

For reference I'm not saying the PS1 was bad, it was great, but it wouldn't be until many years later that consoles with high end PC specs started to arrive with the Xbox 360.

 

[Cooper]

Nah, be about 8 imo (double current PS4 Pro)

I just don't think they'd be able to sell that as a good enough upgrade for a brand new console, too close to an Xbox One X for a start, of course with the Zen CPU architecture, the performance increase would be far bigger than 8tflops would suggest on paper, but it would still be a disappointingly small number for Playstation's chief engineer, Mark Cerny, to stand up on stage and announce.

 

[Jase]

One thing to remember in the PS1/PC argument above is that you may be thinking of the EU release of the Playstation and not the JAP/US release date that was much earlier.

Also the the PAL versions which I guess you were playing would run a lot worse that the NTSC versions and usually letterboxed which is why I would get the imported versions.

 

[mid_gen]

The console/PC divide was never about GPUs.

What transformed PC was the move away from FSB to QPI/Hypertransport which meant PCs finally had an architecture with the bandwidth to utilize GPUs effectively.

That's why there's little difference these days. Before QPI/HT consoles had a massive advantage with their memory access speeds.

 

[TeraVirus]

Sony will only unveil the PS5 when they're certain AMD can deliver the next gen 7nm APU at acceptable failure rates and in quantity.

I bet they want to unveil PS5 in Feb 2019 with a Q4 2019 release date, but if AMD let them down, it will have to delay the release until Q1/Q2 2020.

6c 12 thread Ryzen CPU @ 2-3Ghz
16GB GDDR6
12 Tflop+ GPU

Anything less and it won't be much of an upgrade either.

A console with those specs would be amazing, not going to lie.

 

[Poneros]

Latest leaks:

Hello Guys on the internet. There are many rumors about the next Playstation and Xbox most of them are complete rubbish and pure fiction. Because the sources are not credible (except RuthenCookie Anthem is a messand cannot be, the Hardware is not ready but in development. Devkits were released to the main developers and to a few third party developers. Working as an IT specialist in the Gaming Industry with some first hand informations I try to bring light into all these rubbish rumors. Playstation 5 hardware will be complete manufactured at 7 nm FinFet Process and not at 10,12 or 14 nm. It is not a classic APU/SOC design like what you have seen in previous consoles, it has a discrete GPU, a MCM with chiplets connected via interposer and I/O bridge. AMD has worked many years on this new architecture and Sony give some input for custom features for their new console. CPU clocked at 3 GHz with 256 Bit functions and math operations. It is not a monster it has still 8 Cores but much more powerful and efficient than those underpowered Jaguar cores in the actual consoles. Its ZEN 2 based design with some PS5 only features but smaller CPU cache compare to the PC Desktop variants. GPU is clocked at 1,5 Ghz Navi Design with custom features and more powerful and efficient per watt as the powerhungry Vega Design. It has Al and ray tracing extensions not in that way like Nvidias RTX 2080 GPUs but more useable in real world gaming situations than the complex and powerhungry concept from Nvidia. Tiling, deffered rendering and color compression are supported via hardware. Our programmers like it a lot. GPU Cache is bigger and faster as in the Ps4/Pro. Its really an interesting design with future proof feature and 4K gaming Sony and AMD worked hard to develop drivers, libraries and as a gaming company we gave input back to them to make things better finding bugs etc.. There are also rumors about the type of memory a long ago. PS5 still have GDDR6 Memory 24 GByte with around 800 GB/s bus speed, really fast plus 8 GB DDR4 slower Memory for OS Functions and background tasks and to improve multitasking. Overall memory size is 32 GByte and games running on a multilayered Bluray Disc with 100 GByte size HD type and size actual not final. Sony set the price point for the PS5 at 499 Dollars. It would be interesting the cost of GDDR6 and DDR4 in 2020. Maybe we see some changes for the memory size and clock speed in the final retail Unit. Ps5 supported also PSVR2 and Gamestreaming via Internet.

Jason Schreier (this is the most legit):

Look, as I've been saying since roughly March 2018 (in this very thread), next-gen is coming in 2020. That Semiaccurate article saying 2018 (lol) got people's hopes up for 2019, but by now I hope it's clear that the PS5 ain't coming out this fall.
And, despite all the rumors about devkits being out (usually from rumormongers who are wrong more often than not), the number of people briefed on next-gen is still very limited. Even within companies like, say, DICE, there'll be a small team of engineers who now have a rough idea of specs, and everyone else will know when they need to know. Not a lot of devs are disclosed on next-gen right now.
In other words, don't expect much in the way of substantial leakage just yet. The only thing to know for sure is that both Sony and Microsoft are aiming higher than that "10.7 teraflops" number that Google threw out last week. (And, as has been reported, Microsoft's got a few things in the works.)
------
Anyway, I don't know for sure what next-gen specs will look like. I have no idea how many teraflops there'll be. A dev recently told me that a lot of people within studios are just making assumptions based on limited information, and that one of the assumptions is that everything's going to be twice as powerful.
The bigger question IMO is how many platforms people are going to have to ship on. Last generation's cross-platform games had to ship on five -- PS3, 360, PS4, XB1, PC -- which made people miserable and led to a lot of sacrifices. Now that number's getting even bigger thanks to mid-gen hardware refreshes and cloud platforms. That's what I think is ultimately going to hamper AAA games, not hardware restrictions.

 

[Rroff]

Dunno what he is saying about MCM design - maybe meaning it will have a CPU package, graphics and maybe 1-2 other discrete modules on the same interposer but I can't see that being a MCM GPU in any meaningful way - AMD isn't even working with the substrate technology needed to do that yet and realistically you'd need second generation 7nm as a baseline not to mention some massive architecture changes that Navi will probably be some tentative first steps with under the hood but not used for MCM itself.

 

[Poneros]

Dunno what he is saying about MCM design - maybe meaning it will have a CPU package, graphics and maybe 1-2 other discrete modules on the same interposer but I can't see that being a MCM GPU in any meaningful way - AMD isn't even working with the substrate technology needed to do that yet and realistically you'd need second generation 7nm as a baseline not to mention some massive architecture changes that Navi will probably be some tentative first steps with under the hood but not used for MCM itself.

My read on it is simply that he is confused on the terminology & specs. But for me the exact details are not as important, the more interesting parts are in the console's capability and the intent of the devs for pushing for this much power. I'd be very happy for them to go hog-wild on vram, perhaps we'll see some decent lod & draw distance scaling this time around.