NEw amp and speakers needed

[SamyBoy13]

Hello guys Im looking to buy a decent pair of speakers and amp. I listen to chart music, tropical house, rock and everything that sound good to me. I can buy a Yamaha S501 with S300 CD player for just over 200 pounds with 4 more years of warranty from richer sounds. Im not sure if should buy this amp/cd combo and xxx speakers? I would like to buy used due to better pound for the money. My budget is under 500 at most but ideally closer to 400. Any recommendations would be appreciated

My room is as detailed in the picture below

Spoiler: room plan

I require the speakers to be bookshelf as won't have space for a floor standing speakers. My only requirements are for speakers to sound detailed with a good amount of low end and not too bright.

thank you for your help in advance

 

[lucid]

Bookshelf speakers are physically too small to produce a lot of low end power, so you'd really need a decent sub if you wanted to get down to the bottom end of the musical frequency range (20Hz typically). That might be something to add at a later date.

Wharfedale Diamond 220 or the 225 version might fit your requirements.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

I run a marantz amp and wharfe speakers for my solo audio needs and have zero compliants and fits in your budget nicely.

don't know much about Yamaha stuff and not sure why you want to invest in CD tech over other media solutions?

 

[SamyBoy13]

I run a marantz amp and wharfe speakers for my solo audio needs and have zero complaints and fits in your budget nicely.

don't know much about Yamaha stuff and not sure why you want to invest in CD tech over other media solutions?

I thought about Yamaha amp and cd player as it's sold 2nd hand as a bundle for 200 pounds. Therefore not sure if the amp is worth getting. Plus I do have a cd collection but not sure about the quality of the cd player as a source.

What about dali zensor 3? Are these any good I saw them in richersounds and they look massive compared to other bookshelf speakers. Im aware that I wont be able to go down to 20hz but I want the speakers to have a good amount of quality low end with sub-base to keep it fun to listen to.

Bookshelf speakers are physically too small to produce a lot of low-end power, so you'd really need a decent sub if you wanted to get down to the bottom end of the musical frequency range (20Hz typically). That might be something to add at a later date.

Wharfedale Diamond 220 or the 225 version might fit your requirements.

Thank you for your reply if I were to buy sub later down the line what would you recommend? Also any recommendations on what amp and other speakers? I saw wharfdale 220 for 100 pounds a few weeks ago at richersounds so not sure if more expensive speakers would be better or if I might wait a week or 2 for it to go on sale again hopefully?? Personally, I haven't heard them thus asking. (I only listened to dalis spektor 2, mission lx2 tannoys 7.2 (ithink) and some Yamaha when visited richer sound last time.

 

[lucid]

The shift in performance to better speakers in the next price categories above is significant at this end of the market. I would expect Zennor 3 to outclass the Wharfedales quite comfortably in detail retrieval, precision and timing. Whether you hear those differences depends on what you're looking for in the sound.

Re: bass levels. Most of what people perceive as bass isn't really at the bottom end of the Hi-fi frequency range. It's closer to 60Hz than 20Hz. As long as the bookshelf speakers get down to 50Hz -3dB then you should be okay.

£200 for the Yamaha amp with CD player is a good price IMO subject to condition. New for the amp is £280-£300. CD-S300 is £180-£200 new. S/H for the amp alone I would expect around £150-£180, so you're getting the CD player for £20-£50. That's a good deal IMO. You could always punt it out on Ebay at no loss.

As for other amp/speaker combos, there are too many in the secondhand world to try to list. Much depends on what's available close to you, what you'll accept in finishes/ age/ brand/ condition, and of course what suits your preferences and mounting position.

 

[SamyBoy13]

The shift in performance to better speakers in the next price categories above is significant at this end of the market. I would expect Zennor 3 to outclass the Wharfedales quite comfortably in detail retrieval, precision and timing. Whether you hear those differences depends on what you're looking for in the sound.

Re: bass levels. Most of what people perceive as bass isn't really at the bottom end of the Hi-fi frequency range. It's closer to 60Hz than 20Hz. As long as the bookshelf speakers get down to 50Hz -3dB then you should be okay.

£200 for the Yamaha amp with CD player is a good price IMO subject to condition. New for the amp is £280-£300. CD-S300 is £180-£200 new. S/H for the amp alone I would expect around £150-£180, so you're getting the CD player for £20-£50. That's a good deal IMO. You could always punt it out on Ebay at no loss.

As for other amp/speaker combos, there are too many in the secondhand world to try to list. Much depends on what's available close to you, what you'll accept in finishes/ age/ brand/ condition, and of course what suits your preferences and mounting position.

Thanks, so would Yamaha s501 make a good combo with sensor 3?? I'm working next 3 days so can't go and test it out in richersounds thus asking. If not can you recommend different speakers as the guy is asking me to come in for it. He said that to transfer warranty I need to call richersounds therefore do not know how does this work?

 

[lucid]

I'm guessing then you've had some problem with the previous speakers, hence your question about warranties.

Speaker combos - honestly, that's the whole point of a demo session. It's to try different speaker brands/models in your price range and see if you can hear a difference, and if so, which you prefer.

You might go in to a demo with an idea of a shortlist, but if the sales person doing the demo is any good then they might have suggestions you've not considered.

 

[SamyBoy13]

Would you recommend a receiver?? Ie Yamaha v667 as I can purchase one for 80 pounds locally. Would that be sufficient enough to drive sensor 3 ??

 

[lucid]

Would you recommend a receiver?? Ie Yamaha v667 as I can purchase one for 80 pounds locally. Would that be sufficient enough to drive sensor 3 ??

You're spiralling now, a bit like a whirlwind picking up bits of debris, you're sucking up ideas without much in the way of focus.

What is it you really want? Is it a bargain basement system; or the start of a surround system; or is the aim to stay 2 channel but you need lots of digital inputs; or is it something else?

Any amp will drive virtually any speaker set, but the question is how well. I have some classic B&W monitors which sound glorious when fed with a monster powerful amp, and sound awful and lacklustre when driven by something a bit weak. My main system speakers are JM Labs Electras. They'll run quite happily with a 20W/channel amp but expose its shortcomings at the same time. Both sets of speakers can be driven by any amp, but the results aren't the same.

 

[SamyBoy13]

You're spiralling now, a bit like a whirlwind picking up bits of debris, you're sucking up ideas without much in the way of focus.

What is it you really want? Is it a bargain basement system; or the start of a surround system; or is the aim to stay 2 channel but you need lots of digital inputs; or is it something else?

Any amp will drive virtually any speaker set, but the question is how well. I have some classic B&W monitors which sound glorious when fed with a monster powerful amp, and sound awful and lacklustre when driven by something a bit weak. My main system speakers are JM Labs Electras. They'll run quite happily with a 20W/channel amp but expose its shortcomings at the same time. Both sets of speakers can be driven by any amp, but the results aren't the same.

Im after quality 2.1 set up for my room. I came across v667 so I thought it might be good too as it was valued at 450 back in 2010 and yamaha 501 costs 250 new now from richersounds. Would you say there would be a huge difference between 450 pound receiver and quality 2 channel amplifier for the same price? Im quite new to hifi as recently my Denon 37dab blew and im left with my tannoys custom f2. Im aware that sound is subjective but would like to know your opinion

 

[lucid]

I like Yamaha AV receivers for movies, and I think some of them do a reasonable job for music too. However, you're not comparing apples with apples.

The 667 may have been £450, but that doesn't make it a better stereo amp. The reason it was more money is because of the extra channels of amplification, and HDMI, and digital inputs, and video scaling, and network features, and and and..... Do you get the picture?

The 2 channel stereo element of the 667 is a much smaller part of the whole package than with a dedicated stereo amp.

Put the 667 in to Pure Direct mode and for most non-critical listeners they're probably going to be happy with the sound. But someone looking for the best 2ch stereo performance they can get for the money is probably going to be able to pick apart the receiver compared to a dedicated HI-FI amp.

This keeps coming back to the same thing. It's the demo. You need to hear things for yourself to gauge whether there's a big enough difference.

My own experience goes back to the £800 AV receivers of the early DD/DTS generation in the late 90s. Some/most were bloody awful with 2 channel stereo. By the mid 00s we started to see a few exceptions to the rule, but it wasn't universal and the results were very dependent on the speakers used too. The pendulum is possibly swinging back the other way now since AV receivers are having to cram in so many features for a stupidly tight budget.

 

[tom_nieto]

If you’re after stereo (or 2.1), you’re almost always better to go with a stereo amplifier. This is especially true if your main use is music. Forget the multichannel receiver.

You’re definitely doing the right thing by picking up some decent second hand kit to start off. Get the Yamaha kit bought if it’s in good condition and it comes with a warranty.

 

[SamyBoy13]

Okay, I got myself the Yamaha s501 with cd300 for 200. Im pleased with the purchased, yet didn't manage to get the zensor 3. Im still on a lookout for the speakers. I was able to test out the amp with a pair of my brothers BR2s and they sound clearer on Yamaha 501 than Denon 37dab for sure. yamaha is whole another league from what I can tell from listening.

Anyway, I came across some KEF Concerto One SP3309, yet not sure how would they perform. The only thing I found on them is they were sold between 1999-2000. Did anyone come across them as someone is selling them cheaply for 30

 

[DoneADougalOnSofa]

I can thoroughly recommend the Zensor 3s. Well worth holding out til you find a pair. They sound enormous, and I can't see how anyone would need a sub. I bought them new upon release- I'd heard the Zensor 1s and was very impressed. The 3s absolutely blew me away. Lucid, detailed, airy treble, a wonderful, non-fatiguing sound (you'll go through album after album with a big grin on your face), and bass to die for.
Even if they're a bit over your budget, I'd say go for it anyway. You'll thank yourself for it!
I partner them with a Marantz PM6004 amp. The combo can knock the air from your lungs. My music tastes are broadly anything with a good beat and good bassline...
MA BR2s are very good, although I found them a little dry and sterile after a while- they're very accurate, but I didn't find them a satisfying listen. That's just me, though.

 

[lucid]

Okay, I got myself the Yamaha s501 with cd300 for 200. Im pleased with the purchased, yet didn't manage to get the zensor 3. Im still on a lookout for the speakers. I was able to test out the amp with a pair of my brothers BR2s and they sound clearer on Yamaha 501 than Denon 37dab for sure. yamaha is whole another league from what I can tell from listening.

Anyway, I came across some KEF Concerto One SP3309, yet not sure how would they perform. The only thing I found on them is they were sold between 1999-2000. Did anyone come across them as someone is selling them cheaply for 30

As long as they're in decent physical condition then for £30 they're a no-brainer. Get 'em!

Even if ultimately you don't like them, for £30 they're very undervalued (read as: stupidly cheap ) for decent floorstanders from any of the good British brands, and they'll do you just fine as a stop gap set of speakers until you can find something that better suits your tastes.

If you turn up and find that they're missing the floor spikes or the bridging links at the back then I'd still go ahead with the purchase. New spikes can be bought. Small pieces of speaker wire can be used to replace the bridging links. These are not major issues, and certainly not at that price.

Finding that the speaker grilles are missing is more of a cosmetic issue but expensive to replace like-for-like. Again though, the daft asking price overrides this concern in my book.

Reasons to walk away would be cabinet beyond the odd minor scuff or chip, and also driver damage. The soft dome tweeters can't be pushed in and buckled like metal domes often are, so that's a plus point. If the bass driver has obvious rips/cuts or the rubber surround joint the cone to the flange is ripped or cracked then I'd give them a miss even at £30 unless you know that (a) everything else is perfect and complete (inc grilles and links), and (b) you know for certain that you can get hold of a replacement woofer for under £30.

When push comes to shove, the fundamentals of these speakers are all good:

Well known British brand [tick]
All wood cabinet [tick]
From a time before everything went to Chinese production [tick]
No larger than bookshelf speakers on floor stands [tick]
Original RRP somewhere in the £500-£600 range [tick]

They come from a time when things were a bit turbulent for KEF. Home cinema was all the rage so two-channel was suffering a bit. KEF itself was going through some upheaval too. It had been purchased by a holding company in the mid 90's along with the Celestion brand. For quite a while the product ranges seemed to lack mass market appeal. The Celestion brand was killed off and it's taken a while for KEF to re-establish itself. The Concerto One (SP3309) and Two (SP3310) were born in the middle of all that upheaval. They didn't set the world alight because some other brands were making floorstanders cheaper using chipboard/MDF cabinets covered in vinyl/wood veneer but that sounds as good for 70% of the price. Having said all that, the Concerto One should really be valued at £150/pr used all day long for their performance.

 

[SamyBoy13]

So today I got myself a pair of KEF Concerto ONE for 30 pounds. Not sure if I made the right decision as one of the domes is slightly pushed in, but could help it when I listened to them. I was surprised as they sound as good as Dali zensor 3 and I just could justify putting the money difference. Dali zensor 3 160 pounds vs KEF concerto ONE for 30.

Here is a quick pic of what they look like. I know the placement is crap but will make room later to put them near the wall 30cm away as per manufacturer recommendation

As long as they're in decent physical condition then for £30 they're a no-brainer. Get 'em!

Even if ultimately you don't like them, for £30 they're very undervalued (read as: stupidly cheap ) for decent floorstanders from any of the good British brands, and they'll do you just fine as a stop gap set of speakers until you can find something that better suits your tastes.

If you turn up and find that they're missing the floor spikes or the bridging links at the back then I'd still go ahead with the purchase. New spikes can be bought. Small pieces of speaker wire can be used to replace the bridging links. These are not major issues, and certainly not at that price.

Finding that the speaker grilles are missing is more of a cosmetic issue but expensive to replace like-for-like. Again though, the daft asking price overrides this concern in my book.

Reasons to walk away would be cabinet beyond the odd minor scuff or chip, and also driver damage. The soft dome tweeters can't be pushed in and buckled like metal domes often are, so that's a plus point. If the bass driver has obvious rips/cuts or the rubber surround joint the cone to the flange is ripped or cracked then I'd give them a miss even at £30 unless you know that (a) everything else is perfect and complete (inc grilles and links), and (b) you know for certain that you can get hold of a replacement woofer for under £30.

When push comes to shove, the fundamentals of these speakers are all good:

Well known British brand [tick]
All wood cabinet [tick]
From a time before everything went to Chinese production [tick]
No larger than bookshelf speakers on floor stands [tick]
Original RRP somewhere in the £500-£600 range [tick]

They come from a time when things were a bit turbulent for KEF. Home cinema was all the rage so two-channel was suffering a bit. KEF itself was going through some upheaval too. It had been purchased by a holding company in the mid 90's along with the Celestion brand. For quite a while the product ranges seemed to lack mass market appeal. The Celestion brand was killed off and it's taken a while for KEF to re-establish itself. The Concerto One (SP3309) and Two (SP3310) were born in the middle of all that upheaval. They didn't set the world alight because some other brands were making floorstanders cheaper using chipboard/MDF cabinets covered in vinyl/wood veneer but that sounds as good for 70% of the price. Having said all that, the Concerto One should really be valued at £150/pr used all day long for their performance.

Thanks a lot for your comment lucid. I'm blown away by how good they sound. Yet I noticed that if I put 50% volume the pushed in twitter starts to distort slightly ( vibrates) Any ideas if anything can be done about it? I mean at 50% volume they are killing my ears, plus my neighbours would complain anyway if I listened to them this loud. For quite to moderate listening, they do sound fine. When I noticed I immediately turned them down as wasn't sure if any damage could be caused. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you. They have few scratches but nothing that I would consider major.

Here are close up pictures of speakers:

This is the worst side that damage appears on. Otherwise, other speakers have few minor scratches on top as well. BUT nothing to complain about at this price

I was thinking if tweeter could be fixed or if no further damage can be caused. Is it okay to use resin/filler to fill gaps and repaint them with a spray can? Or would I need to strip down the entire veneer? I believe these cabinets are made of wood?

 

[lucid]

You should be able to pull the dome out with a bit of sticky tape/sellotape wrapped around your finger, sticky side out.

Refinishing the cabinets is possible, but will take some work to get a finish up to factory standard. One of your biggest challenges will be dealing with dust that settles in to any kind of varnish. A wax or an oil would be easier. Better still, seek the advice and possibly the services of a French Polisher.

 

[SamyBoy13]

You should be able to pull the dome out with a bit of sticky tape/sellotape wrapped around your finger, sticky side out.

Refinishing the cabinets is possible, but will take some work to get a finish up to factory standard. One of your biggest challenges will be dealing with dust that settles in to any kind of varnish. A wax or an oil would be easier. Better still, seek the advice and possibly the services of a French Polisher.

Used some tape and got the majority out there are still slight marks where the bents were at the sides. It still makes the noise at 50% but now it is barely audible. I really have to listen for it to notice it

Also any ideas how much KEF concerto Two would be worth as found a pair for sale but seller didn't give a price but asked for offers as unsure of its value? I would like to pay them a reasonable price for them.

The seller also sells a paradigm ps1000 subwoofer, so does anyone know if the sub is any good? If so what would be a reasonable price for a good condition and full working order without humming etc.?

 

[lucid]

Concerto 2 originally retailed for £800. A rough rule of thumb for s/h is 1/4 to 1/3 of the retail value. Having said that, they never really set the sales charts alight, and so I wouldn't be too surprised if some time in their past there was a stock clearance at a much lower price.

The other factor is desirability. This is driven in part by reviews. Anyone contemplating the Concertos is going to have a hard time finding reviews to gauge whether they're worth a punt. By contrast, type "B&W DM605 review" in to a search engine and you'll find opinion from every man and his dog. This gives buyers confidence and so it props up second-hand prices.

Ultimately you have to think what will happen to these speakers when you're ready for your next upgrade. Ebay has a facility to check completed sales. The last couple of pairs of Concerto 3 speakers went for under £80 a pair. IMO that's seriously undervalued, but I haven't read the listings to see if there were issues that might also have pushed the price down. In the end the market sets its own rate. 'Collection only' sales for bulky items also tends to result in lower sales prices. People hate to travel, even for something as important as listening to used speakers. Go figure

Canadian-brand Paradigm PS1000 subs are a bit of a mixed bag. There are at least four versions; V4 being the stand-out model.

V1-3 were sold primarily for movies. They give a lot of thump for very little money. Not subtle, but an entertaining 10" sub if you want the walls to shake for beer-budget money. I don't think I'm being unkind to describe them as the equivalent to the boy racer Vauxhall Nova for the home cinema world. Most you'll find were purchased cheap on deals from Richers, and bought on reputation as being a cheap way to make a big bang. Like the Novas, they'll have been ragged to the limit for most of their lives. Watch out for split or degrading speaker cone foam suspension rings.

The V4 was heavily revised with a much better in-built amp and a redesigned cabinet. It's said they're far better for music and still decent for movies. I think the challenge will be to find a V4 at sensible money compared to the UK-made BK XLS200 XXLS400 and Monolith models. The home market advantages of lower transport costs and avoiding the spanking on exchange rates gives the British brand the edge. However, a lot depends on your budget. BK subs are only sold direct or used, and they're made to order, so there hasn't ever been the volume deals based on container loads of old generation product that made the early generation Paradigms the box-shifter's bargain.

 

[SamyBoy13]

Any recommendation on sub for my concerto 1's? I've fallen in love with those speakers.

I found locally KEF KUBE 1 for 50 in excellent condition, is it any good?>