New car - economics question and guidance

rossk26 · 14 Dec 2017 at 11:45

Hello all,

I currently own a 2004 A4 1.8t avant with ~156k miles. In the 24 months I have owned it, it's had considerable amounts go wrong with it. Oil leak, air con broke, window motor broke, condensation in rear bulb cluster, rust all around the arches. And now I have a coolant leak and it's severe, which has resulted in no hot air in the cabin now too.

I've never liked the car, and it was certainly a bad purchase at the time. It's awful on fuel ~29mpg, and is £305 a year tax, for very little enjoyment at all. My previous Focus ST was cheaper to run.

The coolant issue, and everything else that goes wrong with it, has made me look to get a new car. I've considered lease route as I have very little capital at the moment. But I've ruled this out.

My plan is to get a <£30 tax car which can realistically achieve ~40mpg. My budget would be around £5-6k, and my calculations have been based on the next 3 years in mind. What are you thoughts?

sovietspybob · 14 Dec 2017 at 12:05

With the 2nd hand car after 2 years it'll still be worth something where as a lease you'd have nothing and then have to find the initial deposit again.

A good reliable 2nd hand car is pretty much always going to be the cheapest motoring, just be careful of diesels as they can throw big bills.

rossk26 · 14 Dec 2017 at 12:25

Yes, worked out the rough depreciation cost of a second hand car worth ~5k purchase in the above spreadsheet. My trouble now is finding a nice, reliable, economical second hand cor for £5-6k.

Also the worry is the unknown of the second hand car market too, the car could spring up bills too

Semple · 14 Dec 2017 at 12:37

What sort of mileage are you doing?

£90 a month for ~40mpg i reckon is in the region of ~150ish miles a week?

Which means diesel probably isn't ideal, and i don't think you'll find many petrol cars under the £30 VED bracket - those that are tend to be the 1.0L hatchbacks (or are a hybrid).

Think you might need to accept on the slightly higher VED bracket.

[TW]Fox · 14 Dec 2017 at 12:48

175 a month for a Leon? Is that after amortising the deposit?

rossk26 · 14 Dec 2017 at 12:57

[TW]Fox said:
175 a month for a Leon? Is that after amortising the deposit?

It's a deal I found. 1+35 @ £166pm + £300 admin fee

http://www.carleasing-online.co.uk/...c_technology-172502-personal-car-leasing.html

Semple said:
What sort of mileage are you doing?

£90 a month for ~40mpg i reckon is in the region of ~150ish miles a week?

Which means diesel probably isn't ideal, and i don't think you'll find many petrol cars under the £30 VED bracket - those that are tend to be the 1.0L hatchbacks (or are a hybrid).

Think you might need to accept on the slightly higher VED bracket.

Yes I put 8000 miles to be conservative in my figures, it could be as high as 10k pa. Ideally I wouldn't mind a small petrol engine, as I find them less clunky than diesels. Quite hard finding one within budget though.

I've liked the looks of the V50 R-design, but it comes with a 1.6 diesel with 109bhp! The other option I've found is the Golf 1.4 TSI, which looks nice, but quite dreary on the interior front

Semple · 14 Dec 2017 at 13:08

rossk26 said:
Yes I put 8000 miles to be conservative in my figures, it could be as high as 10k pa. Ideally I wouldn't mind a small petrol engine, as I find them less clunky than diesels. Quite hard finding one within budget though.t

That's because everyone's dumping their diesels and moving to petrols, and with the majority of the market in diesels over the years, there's not as many of them around.

I'd fear with the lowish mileage you'd put on it, that a second hand diesel might throw up some expensive repair bills for three years + ownership.

Manbatius · 14 Dec 2017 at 14:28

If you do go down the Golf route, avoid the 1.4 TSI GT, it has more power than the regular 1.4 TSI, but it also has a turbo and supercharger and these engines are a liability, a shame as their interior is a bit nicer than the usual none GT's with alcantara seats.

I am struggling to think of much, do you have a minimum power requirements Ross? Obviously your Focus had plenty of power and your A4 has a decent amount.
I only ask as the price range and reliability criteria screams Japanese NASP to me. Though I can only think of hyrbids such as the CRZ within your tax requirement. May have to accept the next bracket up or so as Semple said. If so, Mazda 3, Auris?

Your calculations look sensible, I would put a minimum service cost in under repairs. Even if you change oil etc yourself, when you narrow the model down update with how much a basic service is in parts.

rossk26 · 14 Dec 2017 at 14:40

Thanks, very useful points indeed. Tax wise I'd probably go up to 150g/km, which IIRC is £150 a year? It's not the main criteria, but it does coincide with fuel economy. I'm not keen to trade my thirsty Audi for another thirsty car!

skaif · 14 Dec 2017 at 14:55

There are cheaper leases out there should you be willing to hunt around (there was a focus on HUKD for around £6750 over 3 years) and you usually dont have to pay road tax as its included. Insurance is usually cheaper as well.

EDIT
Just realised your deal on the leon was cheaper - still, could do some hunting to find a better deal!

rossk26 · 14 Dec 2017 at 15:12

I've considered the merits of leases, and provided you can get a discounted deal, they do offer some value*

*if you want a new car!

I guess the advantage of a lease is less responsibility should anything mechanically go wrong. But I'm not sure it's worth it based on the extra output per month.

skaif · 14 Dec 2017 at 16:06

rossk26 said:
I've considered the merits of leases, and provided you can get a discounted deal, they do offer some value*

*if you want a new car!

I guess the advantage of a lease is less responsibility should anything mechanically go wrong. But I'm not sure it's worth it based on the extra output per month.

Fair enough, it really is horses for courses. I managed to jump on a cheap Golf lease 18 months ago and even with the additional mileage (21k in total over 24 months) it comes to £200 a month amortised. Add in to that much cheaper insurance (£300 a year) and its the cheapest decent motoring I have done in a while! My micra is the cheapest budget motoring but I wouldnt want to do 10k a year in that again!

the_r_sole · 14 Dec 2017 at 21:12

its an interesting conundrum - in a bit of the same boat myself, I've been looking into the leases and I just don't want a brand new car enough to merit 6-8k over two years, could just buy an 8k car and hope it doesn't go bang in the next two years.
In my situation I'm just keeping the current car going until it throws up a big bill then I'll get second hand car - which I tihnk might be sooner rather than later.

ZG002 · 15 Dec 2017 at 07:40

In a similar situation, but with a £12k budget max. I leased a car through Nissans employee scheme for a year (brother in law works at the plant) and that’s cheap but I don’t like any of the cars on the small list they have.

So I’m back to the Swift sport at the moment, but the Mrs is pregnant so could do with something bigger.

The buy 2nd hand or lease argument keeps going around in my head and I really can’t decide. Want something Ford Focus size and petrol (we do like 6k miles a year) I’m struggling with the idea of a 1.0 eco boost in a focus.

rossk26 · 18 Dec 2017 at 09:28

I need to turn this thread into a spec me thread! I'm really struggling to find anything I like for 5-6k (or less even), that I like the look of.

Requirements:
- £6k max
- low tax
- 40+mpg
- Decent performance
- 5 door
- Good looks (subjective)
- Electric windows all round
- A/C
- Xenons would be nice

At the moment these are taking my fancy, but not exciting me hugely:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201708258678139

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712111977857

Howard · 18 Dec 2017 at 10:15

You want "decent performance" and yet link to a 1.6 diesel? Okay

rossk26 · 18 Dec 2017 at 10:29

haha I know, it's the main reason I am put off by it. I just like the external looks of it!

Manbatius · 18 Dec 2017 at 13:03

rossk26 said:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201708258678139

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712111977857

You know the Golf's I mentioned earlier? hah, My dealership stopped selling them second hand when I enquired, according to the warranty manager I know, they just replace the engines when they start having issues! so a one without warranty might throw a much bigger bill than your A4.

I only know fair bit about them as my criteria was similar to yours! I ended up with the exact Golf in the link, but a 2.0 tdi GT, it has zero emissions problems honest!

By decent performance, You thinking sub 9.0 0-60? all the reliable things I can think of are NASP petrol more around the 10 second mark! The other petrol's I can think of would miss the MPG bit by a lot.

I have considered changing my car a few times and just gone round in circles, I should just buy a 1.33 Auris and be done with it, but I can't!

bJN · 18 Dec 2017 at 13:31

1.8 Civic? Should be able to get a reasonable spec within budget, will return 40+mpg and whilst not the quickest thing on the road it has enough power to trundle along with and overtake.

I'm in the same situation really - my S40 D5 died just over 12 months ago and I was desperate for a car so got the Civic. Doing about 25-27k a year in it and I can't say I have anything to grumble about. Cost me £3100 for an 06 ES (or EX?) Spec that had one owner from new with 42k miles. I'd love to get into a newer car through a lease, but with my mileage it's pointless. Similarly, I can't afford / justify the cost to buy a newer more efficient car outright. I probably wouldn't hesitate to jump into an S40 again with the D5. Thirsty engine being 2.5L but was slightly better than my Civic even with a terrible oil problem.

rossk26 · 18 Dec 2017 at 13:58

Manbatius said:
You know the Golf's I mentioned earlier? hah, My dealership stopped selling them second hand when I enquired, according to the warranty manager I know, they just replace the engines when they start having issues! so a one without warranty might throw a much bigger bill than your A4.

I only know fair bit about them as my criteria was similar to yours! I ended up with the exact Golf in the link, but a 2.0 tdi GT, it has zero emissions problems honest!

By decent performance, You thinking sub 9.0 0-60? all the reliable things I can think of are NASP petrol more around the 10 second mark! The other petrol's I can think of would miss the MPG bit by a lot.

I have considered changing my car a few times and just gone round in circles, I should just buy a 1.33 Auris and be done with it, but I can't!

Ah so the 1.4 TSI is turbo and supercharged? Is that applicable to all Golfs with the 1.4?