New headset : Pimax Crystal

[Tykey]

Pimax held a conference at 9pm last night to announce a forthcoming new hmd:

this vid is a summary.

Pimax Crystal specs are impressive : 42 ppd @ 120 fov / 35ppd @ 140 fov, upto 160hz refresh rate, HDR, QLED, pcvr and wireless capability, comes with inside out tracking and q2 like controllers, a faceplate can be bought to allow the use of basestations and knuckles. Q3 2022 launch, $1899.

On paper it looks great but imo the downer is its pimax. Their track record isn't great.

 

[Tykey]

$1899 Jesus

I honestly think Sony are gonna pull a blinder this Christmas (or whenever theirs comes out). If it works on PC, then damn!

Specs look good, but yeah, pimax....and that price

Yes it's expensive, bit cheaper than the varjo aero (its obvious competitor) though (and much cheaper if u factor in u don't need basestations & controllers). It's by some margin the highest spec hmd so i suppose u get what you pay for. But as yet it's nothing more than specs on a sheet.

 

[Tykey]

I will keep my eye on this as Pimax are primising a rebate on the full price of an 8KX if you bought one and agree to send it back for an trade-in.

please note they're only offering trade in against the forthcoming 12K (supposedly Q4 2022 release), the Crystal has no trade in deal.

 

[Tykey]

it's materialising!

 

[Tykey]

So did anyone preorder?

I chucked one in, they were only asking for a reservation fee rather than the whole lot upfront so thought I’d take a punt… If they can deliver on the claims it will potentially be a great headset, at least until the index 2 comes out anyway!

Pimax Crystal

Experience the pinnacle of VR gaming with Pimax Crystal. Boasting the highest consumer VR resolution and cutting-edge features like local dimming, eye-tracking and more.

pimax.com

I very nearly did but....didn't. Like you say it's only $30 upfront which can probably be refunded if feedback is poor in the upcoming Crystal public demo's (scheduled for Nov and Dec). I've decided i'm gonna wait for the 12K as i have an 8KX to trade in so it makes more financial sense in my situation. But if Crystal reviews are really good i could be tempted, on paper it's comfortably the best hmd around at the moment.

 

[Tykey]

I’m afraid that the 12k will bring any current or near future GPU to its knees in the games I play… my thinking is that the Crystal provides a pretty substantial FoV and PPI upgrade over my G2 or Pico 4, without setting me back 2 GPU generations in terms of performance with dynamic foveated rendering probably offsetting at least some of that extra resolution.

Must admit I’m not a huge fan of that enormous form factor though, how do you get on with the 8KX in terms of becoming what can only be described as a techno hammerhead shark? Do you notice the size of the thing when wearing it?

i'm not so pessimistic about the demands of the 12K although i do see your point. just like the 8KX, the fov/resolution will be changeable to suit the demands of the game you are running. but yeah it's gonna need a 5090/6090 to run at that fov/resolution in most games, but i intend to keep it a few years anyway (so 5090s etc will be out) given the price and i don't expect to see it until atleast the end of 2023.

the size is not as bad as it appears and the crystal is supposed to be a bit lighter than the 8KX. you do see complaints about it but i wonder how many have not got the hmd adjusted properly as proper fit makes a lot of difference. you do notice the size when picking it up and putting it on but you soon forget it once playing a game.

 

[Tykey]

I might be run over by the number 79 from Horsham before then so I’m more of a carpe diem kinda guy!

I think in a similar way (well, it's how i justify my spending on stuff like hmd's and gpu's etc)
I've reserved a Crystal too now, my resolve to not to ran out in a few days

 

[Tykey]

The 4080 looking like a pretty underwhelming product imo... especially in a world where the 7900XTX exists - can't see myself upgrading from the 3090 to that. If I go Nvidia it will be a 4090FE unless they bring out a 4080Ti in response to AMD.

What you say is true enough, Nvidia has historically been better in most VR games though I suspect a lot of that was due to how they scaled better with higher resolutions (they also performed better vs the RDNA 2 GPUs at 4k than they did at 1440p for example) - we don't yet know how RDNA 3 handles higher resolutions but it seems to be a priority for this architecture with 4k performance being a focus. Need reviews to see how they actually compare in VR this time around...

Where AMD clearly does fall down in VR is the frameworks that Varjo and now Pimax are using for some of the more advanced features like foveated rendering. It certainly isn't the case that AMD can't do it - the openXR toolkit can apply foveated rendering on AMD GPUs for example, but they clearly don't provide the same level of tools to developers as Nvidia do.

We shall see... just mostly annoyed that on a potentially quite long lasting headset (especially with the modularity), one could get locked in to potentially a couple of generations of Nvidia cards or face changing the headset. I don't know who to be annoyed at, AMD or Pimax, but I just know I'm annoyed lol.

I bought an MSI 4090 on launch day, it's given a really nice boost to my VR gaming. Would've preferred an FE but all sold out in seconds. Though I think you'll get 1 if you want 1 and are prepared to be patient, and speedy when drops happen. I didn't consider AMD because of the incompatiblities.

I have a reservation in for the Crystal. I wonder how Pimax will handle the issues with Aspheric lenses like the Aero has.

We'll hopefully soon see on the 19th with roadshow feedback coming through. I think distortions will still be something people can spot in the controlled environment of a roadshow. Would've preferred reviewers like MRTV get a Crystal in their hands at his base but Pimax must not consider it ready for that just yet. I do think the roadshow will be useful feedback though.

 

[Tykey]

Quite a bit left to do by the looks of things:
1. MRTVs comments about the non-neutral diopter on the lenses
2. The WiGig module not being on show
3. Tobii eye tracking in but disabled so no automatic IPD adj
4. Presumably no Foveated rendering with the eye tracking off

Lets see if Pimax was listening or just doing lip service and marketing for a product that they know is locked down for mass production

Also the controllers don't function well at the moment.

 

[Tykey]

It's due out in January 2023, isn't it? I think that was the plan anyway, End of November 2022 for China, January 2023 elsewhere.

Or do the issues mean delays?

It was originally slated for release in Q3 2022 (so end of September), then they said shipping to the West by Xmas, that was before it was revealed to be in an unfinished state at the roadshows. So your guess is as good as mine. My prediction is it'll be being shipped as early as March or as late as June 2023.

 

[Tykey]

About the lens focal issue with the Crystal that Seb and some others found at the MRTV roadshow, it looks like Pimax have fixed it. At the roadshows after the MRTV one they used modified or new lenses and users are reporting the issue is fixed, this includes 1 person who initially seen the issue at the MRTV roadshow. To be absolutely sure Pimax should let Seb use the headset again, hopefully that will happen.

 

[Tykey]

I don't have any experience with the pimax eye tracking module, but I know there were definitely some issues - no idea if it got sorted, but if I had to guess I'd probably go with not! That said I don't really think the two are necessarily directly comparable between an add on module by pimax and an integrated from day one solution from Tobii, their troubles with the eye tracking module are probably a big part of what led to the partnership with Tobii for the new headsets I assume.

Did they ever get their previous eye tracking working right? That was broken for at least 12 months after release and I stopped following it.

the ET worked eventually with the help of someone not connected to Pimax in an official way, "guppyexpress", who wrote better firmware for it. ive not used it myself but it's said to be usable with the improved firmware.
i agree that this is a different scenario now with someone like tobii being involved.

I don't hold out much hope of them getting the lenses right on any of their headsets.

i can only relay to you the experience ive had with 3 (lol) 8kx's, all have been ok lens and display wise. no ipd issues etc. getting that bit right was as simple as other hmd's for me. but i understand what you're saying as i've read about numerous reports similar to what you say. i don't understand why there is such variance, unless there is variance between pimax hmd's, but as i mentioned the 3 ive had were ok.

 

[Tykey]

Tl;dr:
he says interchangeable lenses are problematic, (me having owned a Rift DK with interchangeable lenses i completely disagree).
says controllers are poor.
says visuals are very good, no focal point issue.
it's obvious he doesn't think much of Pimax.

 

[Tykey]

yeh he likes the visuals which are arguably the biggest selling point. but doesn't like the controllers which is a major negative for me, i really don't want to have to use lighthouses and knuckles, in fact if the controllers are getting generally reviewed as being bad, it'll put me off buying it.

 

[Tykey]

Pimax releeased a Q & A document that many feel (including Brad) was a response to Brads video :

 

[Tykey]

 

[Tykey]

 

[Tykey]

I think it sounds good..."the best VR display in the world...", can't argue with that really, he's had more experience of vr headsets than most. It's heavy but the feedback is that it's balanced, the battery being in the back must help. I'm undecided about buying it, it's a lot of money. Its direct rival the Aero is more expensive and offers less. But Varjo are a good company to deal with ime, whereas Pimax aren't always up to the standards we expect in the West.

 

[Tykey]

 

[Tykey]